Date in a Blink

DATES BETWEEN STRANGERS

Episode Transcript

Laura
Hello and welcome to today's episode of Date in a Blink, where we're hosting Rebecca and Jay for a Blink Date.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice on the speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging, our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's Blink Date, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

[Ad]

Laura
Today's date prompt comes from THE AND, a card game by the Emmy Award winning studio THE SKIN DEEP, designed to give people a little more space for a lot more openness, honesty, and vulnerability. If you want to start asking bigger questions and get to know someone beyond the surface, check out their decks at shop.theskindeep.com/blink. That's shop.theskindeep.com/blink.

Laura
We're here on Date in a Blink today with Rebecca and Jay. I'm going to let you two dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question: what's one thing you've always wanted to learn but haven't, and why?

Rebecca
I can go —

Jay
You want to go first? Go ahead.

Rebecca
Yeah sure. I've always wanted to learn salsa. I am a hip hop and Zumba instructor, I teach at crunch fitness in Equinox in San Francisco.

Jay
Wow

Rebecca
And I know Latin moves, but I've never learned traditional salsa. And I would love to.

Jay
Okay, that's very cool. So I had a different answer. But I would love to dance now that you seem like you know, what you're doing on that front. Um, yeah, so yeah, my answer to the question... I'll give you what I was going to say before was I was gonna say that I wanted to learn to cook, because I like eating a lot. And so it is, it is about high time that I learned to cook so that I can kind of make the dishes that like my mom makes and stuff like that. And so that would be my original answer. But dancing sounds great, too.

Rebecca
Yeah. So funny. You say that, because I just started cooking. I have a full kitchen and everything. But I usually just whip up like, eggs or salad, or like granola and fruit, and I got bored of it. And when I went home for Thanksgiving, I was reminded that home cooked meals are so delicious. And I work remotely and I just don't go out and eat because it's more affordable to eat inside. So I just started cooking more. I am not so great. But I'm utilizing my oven and I'm making fish and chicken and using a lot of vegetable—I like to use yams and make like sweet potato fries, which are really good.

Jay
Oh, yeah, I love those.

Rebecca
What do you what are you looking to cook?

Jay
What am I looking to cook I think a lot of what you said like salads and stuff daily. Like I'd like to like whip something up, right? Like right now I kind of have to think about it. Either I'll go out or thankfully I live near like both Whole Foods and Safeway. And so like I can go there and pick something up. But it's always like I have to like go there. And so I would much rather prefer that sort of, I have something at home that I can whip up easily. So we'll start there. And then probably there's like, so so I'm I'm Indian, and there's like a few dishes that my mom makes that I really miss. And so, I'd want to start cooking that basically at least the easier ones that I miss. There's some very involved dishes that I won't get to but yeah.

Rebecca
That's so cool. I just used Amazon Fresh for the second time. And if so great. Like, I work remotely. And so it's like easy for me to get out and go to the grocery store. But I was in a bind. And so I ordered on Amazon Fresh and you spend, it's like $35 and it's free after that shipping is free. So, so easy. It just like oh my I love going to the grocery store. But it's so convenient. And it came like like I didn't even have to go downstairs to get it. It was right at my doorstep.

Jay
That's awesome. So I'm just curious, like you said you work remote. Also, like, you're like a instructor for somebody said, and so like, how does that work?

Rebecca
Yeah, so I have three professions. I'm a recruiter at a tech company or a TV streaming company. And then I am a dance instructor and then I'm a hostess on Friday, Saturday evening, so I'm there. Yeah,

Jay
Yeah. Thank you for making the time today.

Rebecca
Well it's Sunday, so I'm not working.

Jay
Yeah.

Rebecca
What do you do?

Jay
So yeah, I'm a data analyst at a startup. So...

Rebecca
Oh, cool

Jay
I have only one job though. And that keeps me pretty busy. I don't think I could ever do three.

Rebecca
Well, dance is like, like it's a job, but also it just replaces an hour worth of exercising so I don't really count it as a huge time commitment.

Jay
Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah. Have you always been dancing or is it something you picked up?

Rebecca
Yeah my whole life

Jay
Oh, wow.

Rebecca
I've danced my whole life and I did a lot of musical theater and Then when I went to school, I just stopped dancing because like, when you're in college like it's just harder, you know? So I pursued business and then started teaching hip hop on the side just to incorporate dance still into my life

Jay
what what, what did you learn, what style were you learning, or practicing as a kid? Sorry, did you change styles?

Rebecca
Oh, I did studio dance. I did a jazz ballet hip hop, tap all that.

Jay
Okay.

Rebecca
And then I did musical theater.

Jay
Right, right, right.

Rebecca
Yeah.

Jay
Was it, was it different getting into sort of like hip hop dancing and...

Rebecca
different than, like, what?

Jay
Different than sort of musical theater in the stuff?

Rebecca
Oh, so different. I mean, out of the two, I like performing I like musical theater because you get to sing and act and dance and just like it's more expressive. And it's so much fun. I did a improv class during the pandemic through improv theater. That's right near my place. But obviously the pandemic, nobody, like everything was shut down. So I did an improv. It was like, as it was like a 10 week course, once a week for two hours. And I felt like I was connecting again with performing. With musical theater, it was not musical theater, but it was fun to do something theatrical.

Jay
Yeah, for sure.

Rebecca
What do you do for fun?

Jay
For fun? I listened to a lot of podcasts, and I go on long walks in Golden Gate Park, preferably together.

Rebecca
Yeah, that's fun! Okay, so you're in San Francisco?

Jay
Yep.

Rebecca
Okay, cool. Same here.

Jay
Yeah. So I just really like sort of like the meditative aspect of taking a walk. Like, I know, a place like, I'll get my coffee. I have a routine to go to the park now. Which sounds like... I mean, it sounds a bit stupid when you put it like that. But it really like helps me sort of like find my center. I guess a lot in the way dance helps you, I guess.

Rebecca
Yeah

Jay
Like I can, I can walk for a long time. Like, generally I'll go out and walk for like two hours. So...

Rebecca
I'm that same way yeah,

Jay
Are you the same way with walking or...?

Rebecca
Oh, my gosh, I went to shop today. And you know how people will drive from one place. I didn't park in like a garage. So you know, they'll like drive from one parking lot to another one? I just parked in one place. And then I just walked all the way. One: it would take too long to find another parking spot. And two: I love to walk.

Jay
Yep. That's awesome

Rebecca
It just feel so good. Yeah, it's really nice, especially in the city. Like, it's small enough that you can get to a lot of places by walking.

Jay
Yeah, and my favorite part is always like, you can always just bail pretty easily. And it won't be that expensive. Like generally like Muni, or Bart will be there. Or if not, you can take an Uber. And so it's like, there's no risk really to just walking and like exploring random stuff. So yeah.

Rebecca
Yeah, that's awesome. Except there's so many hills in San Francisco.

Jay
Yeah, yeah, you get better at those, like I like I know the streets to avoid the hills now, or at least you said it.

Rebecca
Yeah.

Jay
Have you been in the city long?

Rebecca
I've so funny story. I was here, like two months before the pandemic, and then I went home to Washington. And then I came back. And so I've been here for like seven or eight months. So, technically I've had a place for like, two years, but I haven't been here for too long, how about you?

Jay
Yeah, so I've been in the city for about six, seven months, about the same time roughly, but I lived in San Jose before that, I basically ridded out COVID in the, in the suburbs, is the way I tell people about it. It's a great place because the city is kind of dead anyway. I came to San Francisco during like, July of 2020 and it was just dead and so like I'm like, I'm happy. I picked the suburbs. Where in Washington where are you because I used to live in Seattle for almost three years.

Rebecca
Oh, wow! I was in Newcastle and then Bellevue.

Jay
Okay, yeah, I do not know where Newcastle is. I do know where Bellevue is.

Rebecca
Okay, were you were you like St. Seattle proper or in the greater Seattle?

Jay
Yeah, I used to live in Capitol Hill for almost three years.

Rebecca
Oh, sweet! Oh, that's awesome. It's very rainy there

Jay
It is. The rainy part didn't get to me as much. It's just like, the always gloomy part got to me, like I really enjoyed the sun in San Francisco. Like it's so beautiful like today was beautiful.

Rebecca
At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

Laura
Dance always holds a special place in my heart. So I wanted so badly to jump in to talk all about salsa dancing with Rebecca and Jay. It was sweet how both had commonalities where they wanted to learn what the other had mentioned, from dancing to cooking, and even sweeter when we later discovered that they both really liked walking.

Do you think they'll go on a walking date avoiding the hills of San Francisco? Or will they instead be having a dance for one? If you're eager to know if they'll be dancing together or walking separately, tune into the next episode, where we'll be chatting with an expert about the date and revealing whether or not it was a match.

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Laura
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re joined by Elizabeth Dell, a trained sex educator and founder of Amorus.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink dates? Or when they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

[advert]

Laura
Today on Date in a Blink, we are thrilled to be joined by Elizabeth Dell, a trained sex educator with a masters in public health from UC Berkeley. She was previously a film producer producing multiple indie features, including destination wedding, staring Winona Ryder and Keanu Reeves. Amorus brings together her career of storytelling and her lifetime interest and sexuality to help partners everywhere tell each other the most delicious stories. With that being said, Elizabeth, welcome. We are so happy to have you on today. Elizabeth
Thank you. I'm really excited to be here.

Laura
Yeah. So Amorus is an app for couples that make their communication more to use the word from the website. Delicious. And I love that term in this context. Could you give us a rundown of what it means to make couples and their conversations more delicious and how Amorus helps them achieve that?

Elizabeth
Yeah. So for me, Amorus was built from actually was inspired at the beginning of the pandemic from going into lockdown without my partner, in cohabitating with me, and having to do all of that romance and play and intimacy on my phone and thinking, oh, well, I'll just like, get an app for that. You know, I have an app for everything else. I’'m sure this will be great. Only to discover that there wasn't really anything that would help me connect, help me get ideas for what to talk about, helped me feel safe and private helped me feel connected to my partner. And so I decided I would go build it. And so Amorus is a relationship intimacy and romance app. At its core it's messaging, because honestly, the person you wanna talk to is your person, but built around that is a whole suite of games, of security and privacy provisions, all of the tools that you need. To be able to do that on your phone in a way that feels really, really good. And to do that from a place of like, Hey, let's discover shared desires, let's start sexy new conversations, let's be delicious and have so much fun together.

Elizabeth
So I have a question and forgive me if the answer should be obvious, but for all the listeners who don't yet know, um, is now that we're in this world where we're kind of still virtual, but still we're coming back into that in real life experience. Does Amorus, is, is it able to support kind of, um, people exploring how to make their relationships more delicious in both contexts? Absolutely. I mean, we just, because we're in the real world now, which is amazing, doesn't mean we have stopped using our phones, right. It is a combination of. Taly
what are you talking about? I threw mine out.

Elizabeth
So, you know, we have everything from people using Amorus so that there's Hey, well, I'm out in the course of my day. I get a cool, fun ping from my person and go, ah, they love me. And. Listen, people have asked me like, can't I do that on SMS text? And I'm like, yes, you can. But when I look down at that, I don't immediately know it's fun and sexy and playful and caring because that might be about how I forgot to do the laundry. Or that might be about like, Hey, can you pick up milk? Like I don't anticipate, I don't get excited necessarily when I see an SMS text from my partner, because most of the time that's logistics, but when you've got Amorus, you know, even before you open it, oh, they're thinking about me because they sent me an Amorus message, also all of our tools and especially our games, are designed to be things that you can take into the real world. So our sexy conversation starters, start a conversation about what smell turns you on, and then go get that Yankee candle, um, or, you know, have we have a game called fantasy swipe, which is all about matching desires with your partners. So you can swipe desires, you want yes and no, they do the same and your matches are revealed. So. If you guys just learned that librarian student happens to be a fantasy for both of you. Hey, maybe that's what Saturday night's gonna be about

Taly
I love this so much. And it, it really kind of, um, calls out how space is so important and how creating a space for these sorts of conversations can make them feel a lot more natural. And I think just thinking kind of more broadly, like, Being vulnerable, especially when it comes to sexuality usually requires, uh, like you said, like a sense of comfort and safety. And I'm wondering if you could actually share some thoughts about how you think online spaces generally present some challenges for the creation of that comfort and safety? Elizabeth
Yeah. I mean, I think that it's, it's sort of understandable how it happened, but for the average dating app, their incentives are entirely misaligned, with kind of comfort and safety. Like they, their incentives are to give you a really big pool of people, which I understand why that's really important, but they don't wanna do anything that's gonna make people not wanna be there. And something like, Hey, we will have, uh, standards for your behavior, make some people not wanna be there. And so what we don't have is ways to like enforce appropriate behaviors. A lot of times it incentivizes people to play the game of a dating app, but not actually with the goal of a connection, because if you connect, then you stop playing. Um, which Taly
The way we way we like to, to think about it is that it's a matching app. So it's not actually meant for the development of the connection. It's meant to just match you with people based on, you know, a profile Elizabeth
And when you're doing that, you don't have the kinds of, you know, I mean, with an Uber, we have ratings of drivers and of passengers because people are like, I don't wanna get in a car with someone who's doesn't have who I do not trust to have their, you know, common sensical, good behavior on, but we don't have metrics like that in a dating app, you can't look on a Tinder person and be like, Hey, this person has never been red flagged or this person's been red flagged a dozen times. You know, let's be careful about what conversation we're having with them. And, and so it incentivizes people to not worry about good behavior, which is an unfortunate side effect.

Taly
And I'm wondering on the flip side of it, do you think that online spaces have offered op additional opportunities for comfort and safety?

Elizabeth
I think it's a blend, you know, in, there are lots of spaces, like sexuality, in where the societal's desires or like societal's prevalent decision making. That's a terrible way to say that, um, society's rules and regulations are really restrictive and really sex negative. And so finding spaces, whether those are because you're anonymous. Or because you've restricted the group to only people who are in tribe or are interested, you can find a lot of safety online. If you're a trans kid in Kansas, there is so much more safety to be found online than off, but that does not mean that there are not spaces online that can also be completely terrible. And so it's finding that balance of how do you create spaces that have. Standards of good behavior, but maybe not standards of restrictive sex, negative behavior. That's a thing that I think about all the time.

Elizabeth
Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. You're making a space like that, so it's really awesome. Yeah. And I think everybody, you know, we're thinking about it in different ways. You are making a space to meet people with a lot of that. I'm making a space to create that with the person that you've met. So how do you feel confident that if you share something, you can always take it back. How do you make, you know, feel confident that being on Amorus is not something that other people will see and judge you for because you will only exist to the one or two or, well, actually to be fair, however many one-on-one partners you want to invite if you're ethically non monogamous, but, but you only exist in relation directly to that other person. There's no one who can go see you on Amorus and decide that they're gonna judge what you're doing.

Laura
And this is an incredibly apropos segue for one of the things that we saw in a previous interview that you did was you mentioned that there was a survey where people were asked about their hesitance hesitancy regarding sexual communication, and surprisingly, the number one response was I will be too honest. And for me, that's just. Totally wild. I feel like that's, that, that was really surprising for me to hear. So I'm, I'm curious, in your opinion, what does this say about how people feel about their own sexuality, as well as their perception of kind of the sexuality of others?

Elizabeth
Yeah, it's, it was totally wild, honestly, for me to see and heartbreaking, honestly, and I think it comes from a lot of places and you can point a figure at porn or point a figure or whatever, but honestly, I think the. It starts on a playground, right? It starts as a little kid on a playground where you learn the lesson really quickly, that if you're the kid who gets curious and excited and wants to learn more, when someone has a sex story, other kids might point and laugh at you or call you a pervert or call you weird. But if you lean back and say, I don't want that. Then nobody will ever judge you, you will be safe. And we get taught that so early that most of us have this instinctive, every time someone talks about sex that I don't understand, or I'm not sure of, or I don't know, or I feel uncertain about, I'm gonna lean back. I'm gonna retract. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna. I'm going to respond with disgust or with reserve or with judgment, because that is a safe response. The problem is, is that then you end up in situations where maybe a partner says something to you and you react instinctively and they feel really judged or they feel, and then they get the message, oh, this isn't a safe space. Or I, or they got the message from all their partners. In the past that talking about my sexuality is gonna get me judged or it's gonna get me called a per, or it's going to. And we don't have a lot of spaces in which we model people being honest about their sexuality and just presenting it as themselves. I think it gets echoed and echoed and echoed in porn in the ways that while there are these pockets of like the most extreme behaviors, there also is a very specific gaze that everything kind of flows through. And it says, here are the top 10 things that you should want in sex. And. When I think about it, I, I had someone the other day tell me, trying to learn sex from porn is trying to learn driving from fast and the furious. Like it's just not an appropriate response. And I was like, oh yeah, that's a really good, that's a really good analogy. But how do we de show people that honesty and sexuality is something that can be welcomed and rewarded. For me with Amorus, a big part of our sexy conversation starters are how do we help you practice having conversations around sex that go well? I can't guarantee that every conversation you have with your partner is gonna go well, but having sexy conversation starters, like what smell turns you on, or what's the most erotic thing you've ever worn, or what's a song that you always want at the top of your sexy playlist? There, have that conversation move onto the next, have that mutual back and forth of, oh, Hey, I had this conversation and my partner responded positively. He put that on our playlist next week, or, you know, we went shopping for lingerie together or whatever that is, and then you're comfortable with the next conversation and the next and the next, but how do we help people practice and model that behavior with each other? I mean, that's the sort of serious educator version of, Hey, I want y'all to talk about sex and be delicious and have fun.

Laura
It's uh, it's so interesting for me to hear you say these things, because sex really is such a taboo topic. It's one of those things that people don't really talk about it at the dinner table. Obviously, I think that makes people uncomfortable, even just thinking about the people that, you know, even if they're friends, I know people get really weird about talking about sex with family and, and people like that. But it's just so funny because if you don't see that modeled and the only place you see it modeled is in places that it's really inappropriate. Or things that don't, you know, sit well with you, it's easy to feel weird or othered or uncomfortable about it. And so I think one of the only places people really have this space to talk about those things is in therapy because it feels like a safe non-judgmental space. And so I'm, I'm curious when you're thinking about how you encourage people to start beginning to have these conversations. There's almost a little bit of, like, I wanna say like a Puritan vibe that people have around talking about sex, and so I'm like totally obsessed with this concept of like, how do you encourage couples to talk about it? Especially, I think this is helpful to start a new relationship, but especially as I'm thinking about relationships, once they're out of the lust phase and they're in that long term loving phase with each other, things can get into a routine. You can kind of feel like, oh, I already know a lot about my partner or, you know, we never talked about it while we were in the lust phase. And so now it just feels weird to talk about it. And so I'm curious, how do you think about kind of creating those sorts of spaces, especially for people who might be in, you know, a little further down the line and they're dating with somebody, um, you know, to kind of keep it sexy, keep it fun, keep it light, you know, how do you dip your toes in the water, cause I think about answering the question of, um, you know, like what's the smell that turns you on. And immediately my response is like, oh, I don't, I don't know. I don't even know how to think about that. So how do you, how do you think about that? I'm curious.

Elizabeth
Well, I think part of it is presenting a new space. That's one of the wonderful things about Amorus as an app, or you know, about a date in a box that comes to your house that you send away for, or a game. Like we are not really strangers. That's about, you know, values and talking about how do you engage in relationship? It gives you a new context in which to ask new questions. You know, we have people who use Amorus for chatting back and forth because they're a long distance couple. I was talking to someone the other day who was like, actually, we've never really messaged on your app, but we find the games really fun. So we just sat on the couch and like pushed the chat sparks button and talk about what, all the questions that get asked with each other. Like we. But, but again, it's the asking of that question. You, you don't have to have an answer for what smell turns you on, but now you're thinking about it. Maybe now you're like in the CVS, walking down the aisle and going, oh, interesting. Here's a new way for me to think about my sensuality. My pleasure. Let me, and maybe there's a different question that you have with your partner. I think again, it's. One, we all like to have routines and routines, make it easier to think. So if you have a routine, you don't have to think about something. If you have a habit, you don't have to think about it and you freeze up space to think about other stuff. But also we, sometimes when we move out of the last phase, we sort of feel like we're not allowed to go back in it that, you know, we've established our patterns and now we can't break them because then it would be strange. Like we've we have a pattern of why would we change it? And so I think sometimes changing the context. You know, and this is why you like go on a sexy weekend away because you're in a new context and you can have new conversations that aren't the conversations that you're supposed to. And I've air quotes happening here have in your bedroom. Right. We've gotten in the rhythm of in bedroom. We have these conversations and not those. So maybe if we go to a hotel room in Fiji, well, we don't have a habit of what we talk about in hotel rooms in Fiji, so we can have new conversations. And so I. Something like that's a huge part of why Amorus was designed, is how do we use games and fun and play to help introduce novelty and spontaneity again, and ask new questions and give you new ways to interact with each other.

Taly
So a question for you since we've sort of talked a little bit about how to start broaching these conversations with our partners, if we're interested in having them, but going back to what you had mentioned earlier about why, you know, people might feel anxious about having these conversations to begin with. A lot of that is internal. Um, and even if we're really comfortable with someone and we know them very well and we feel very intimate with them, um, we can sometimes struggle to get over some of those, uh, internal hangups. And I'm wondering if you have any advice on how we can work through that. I know therapy obviously is one of those. Um, but if there's anything that folks can start doing on their own to start, um, feeling more comfortable, broaching those raw conversations about sex and kind of, you know, all, all of those other delicious things.

Elizabeth
So I would give a few pieces of advice. One, I would say, start with yourself, start. I mean, I'm a really big fan that part of getting comfortable with anything is practice, right? It's practice, practice, practice. So do you, can you journal about what's sexy to you? Can you write yourself your own little voice note or, or talk yourself a voice note or write something on your phone, but practice the act of talking about your own pleasure to yourself. What is exciting to you? What's sexy to you? What take makes you hot? Um, also. In part and parcel of that is exploring your own pleasure and sexuality. You know, I think a lot of us, aren't always sure what it is that's really exciting. And so it's really hard to articulate to someone else if you don't know yourself. So going on some thinking about how do I like touch or what thoughts aroused me. And so then you have a context for, okay, that's a thing that I know that I want. And then I can share that want with my partner. But so I would say understanding yourself and your own pleasure. And of course these are evolving things. One never knows everything about oneself. Like we, we are creatures that constantly evolve, but understanding some of what your own pleasure is and getting better at that and then practicing, writing it. Another way to practice is dirty talk. a little, you know, even the littlest bit of whether it's nonverbal. Mm oh. I or like that's really hot or I loved it when you did that. A little bit of practice in the bedroom, the most of the time. I, I don't wanna give 100% guarantee, but most of the time expressing to a partner that you want something or that you would need something is a really good way to get it. And that positive feedback. Oh, I love it when you give me a back massage and then I got a back massage makes it like, oh, great. Now let me ask for something else. How about you kiss my neck? How about you and your fingers through my hair? How about you massage my feet? Practicing and having that back and forth and that positive feedback, that the point is not that we should become extraordinary erotic fiction writers overnight together. The point is that we start doing a little delicious thing, and then once that's delicious, we do a little bit more and a little bit more and find the things that you like and the things that you don't and pursue them. So I'd say start small is. A lot of that comes together and start small.

Laura
This, I am so fascinated because I feel for a lot of people and I'm sure I met alone in thinking this, view intimacy, even when you're with someone for such a long time view intimacy, especially when you're talking about like sexual or sexual intimacy as a performance. And the fact that you're saying practice, I think that that's a really important distinction because a lot of people probably don't view any type of sexual encounter with somebody or even a sensual encounter with somebody as, you know, a practice or a repetition or training or, you know, things like that. It's essentially a muscle that you have to build. And I think that there can be a lot of fear and I just, I I'm now making this connection as you're talking. It's wild to me, that sex feels so performative. And I'm just gonna talk specifically about sex. Um, that sex can feel so performative and it feels like, you know, oh, this is the final act. Even if you've had sex with this person, you know, a hundred times before, I, I feel a lot of us have that, you know, it's that stage fright in these fears that really come up because we're not necessarily viewing it as a form of practice or training or a cooperative participation to try to build something together.

Elizabeth
I mean, it really like it's a skill like any other, and if you wanna be good at cooking, you don't sort of watch, you know, Nigella, Nigella or someone and be like, oh, I have to show up in the kitchen and be her. And if I don't, I clearly must not know how to cook and I've never like, I shouldn't start anymore. I shouldn't try anymore. You know, we don't walk out onto a tennis court and say, if I can't be Andre Agasy today, then clearly I'm not gifted in this and I should not try ever. But we somehow, do that in sexuality a lot, we show up and think that if I'm not a porn star on day one, clearly my sex is wrong or my intimacy and my pleasure is something that I'm just bad at. Whereas, in our, like, even in just talking to our partner, that's a thing that we get better at. That's the process of being in a relationship for years is getting better at being with a person and gaining skills, gaining skills in a kitchen, you gain skills in a bedroom, and those skills can be, you know, exactly how you move your fingers and your tongue in a certain way, but those skills can also be how do you communicate your desires and skills around, how do you understand your pleasure. And how do you understand the ways and the hows and the wear fors of what turns you on and the ways and the wears and the, how fors of like what turns you off? You know, I think another big part of this is exploring where are the things that turn me down. Like what, what's the, what turns the dial down because sometimes avoiding what turns the dial down is as important or more important as understanding what turns the dial up. Right. If I don't feel safe in this space, or if I feel like I'm being rushed for time, that always makes me lose my libido. Okay. Great. Then. It's really silly for your partner to be constantly approaching you at 7 45 in the morning, and then you reject them and then they don't understand why they're always being rejected. But if you guys can explore together, oh, Hey. You know, thi like feeling like my alarm clock's gonna go off is something that's really bad for me. Like for some people that might be like, oh, this is so cool. We have to do a quickie. And this is really exciting. But for other people it's like, absolutely not. So it's like, Hey, stop asking at 7:45 AM on Tuesdays, but let's absolutely plan for like 7:00 PM and the rest of the night on Saturday, that that can make a huge difference. But that's the kind of thing that you don't walk into a relationship knowing. You work at it, that's a skill like learning that is a, is part of the skill of intimacy.

Laura
Yeah. And I also. Kind of diving a little bit deeper into that, one of the things that I know makes people, uh, not everybody, but a lot of people I think, feel uncomfortable with sexy talk is because I think there's a twofold fear. There's a fear that they're gonna wind up saying something that's embarrassing or saying the wrong thing. Uh, and so there's that kind of, I, I feel self rejection, right? Where, oh, what if I say the wrong thing, or I think I'm saying something sexy and it comes at really unsexy and then this person responds in a way that's a little repulsive and now I feel bad. Or what if I say something that, know, I'm saying it to the other person, and then now they, um, they have some rejection sensitivity because of it. Like, let's say, you're trying to encourage somebody to do more of something that you really like and what if they end up, you know, interpreting that, not as, um, you know, what if they interpret that as criticism and now you've kind of shut them down. So I'm curious, what advice do you have for listeners when it comes to overcoming those sorts of fears? You know, if that's something that they want to and embracing the sort of like delicious, intimate chat that Amorus helps facilitate.

Elizabeth
I have two strategies for that, that I would point to. Strategy one is embrace the awkward. Tell someone you're bad at something, because when you tell them you're bad at it, you have removed all standards of being good at it. Then if you do something that's really crazy hot, like woo, beginners luck, you're a genius. Um, so I'm a really big fan of being like, Hey, I might be really bad at this, but like, I think it'd be fun to do. It allows you, I mean, play, one of the things that I think is beautiful about play and just no matter what age or when is that play allows us to fail, right. When we're playing a video game, we are gonna like run in and get killed by the Brocasaur a billion times, and then it's just gonna respawn us and then we're gonna go and be like, okay, now I'm gonna figure out a new strategy to kill my Brocas or, or whatever that is. And failing is just part of the process of getting to the win, and so I think if you embrace that, and one of the ways I love to embrace that is being like, Hey, I might be super awkward at this. And if I am like, all right, we'll figure it out. You know? Or I have been known in my sexting, like with a long pause to sometimes text my partner and be like, um, so that was a boner killer, question mark, question mark, question mark. Um, you know, just embrace the like, oh, I might have effed that up, but like that isn't the cost of that is just stopping and restarting. And if that's, and I think the other, your partner is almost always having a lot of those similar fears. And so if you can establish, we are both allowed to be bad here. And the cost of failure is going to be that we have to try again and no more than that, you set a baseline where both people are excited to try and to be there and to, to move forward. The other big strategy is ask questions. I think. We do sometimes have this idea that we should know all and be great at all before we start. And in fact, that can be counterproductive because sexy talk, intimacy, it is all about connection with the other person. It is all about engaging with the other person being responsive to the other person. So if you know everything to do in advance, what that means is you are not paying attention to your partner. Because your, it will be different with whoever that partner is. And so if you are not in that moment with them, then you are running your own script, which is not actually really delicious engagement with your partner. And so if you're asking questions is the most perfect way I have ever found to engage with your partner. You know, it's when you ask someone a question, it says, I am interested in your opinion. I see you here. I want to be here with you. I want you to tell me a thing, so that can be everything from, I had a really sexy dream. Do you wanna hear me tell you about it or, Hey, I know, you know, that back massage last week seemed to go really well. Could we do that again? Or, you know, you said that you really loved those clothes that I wore. What if I bought something new like that, or, you told me that you like being touched on your neck, where on your neck do you like to be touched? If you don't know what to say, ask a question based on the thing that they told you, because that will always come back to, I see you, what you are saying is important to me and it models the behavior that hopefully they will then demonstrate towards you.

Taly
I just, I wanna call out one thing while you said a bunch of really valuable things. But one thing that you've said in there that really hit home for me and is something that I, I feel like I need to remind myself both in romantic context, but also just life in general is that your partner probably feels the same way. And I feel like we go through life thinking like, oh, we're so anxious. We're worried about what we look, we're worried about the things we say in meetings. We look at ourselves in the zoom camera and, you know, wonder are we do we look okay? What do we look like when we're doing this particular thing? But everyone else is doing the same thing. They're not looking at you. They're not, they're anxious about. What they are, have to say in the meeting and how they look. And so if we could, can just take a step back and remind ourselves, I don't really need to be all that anxious cuz people aren't focused on me. They're focused on themselves. And not that that, that they should be, but it just, I think can help us let go of some of these anxieties. And I think in the context of relationships and kind of having these conversations, just remembering that, your partner, probably also, isn't sure how to bro these conversations and they're also probably exploring it, um, for the first time. And certainly they're doing it for the first time with you, if you haven't done it yet. And so it can be something that you do together and, you know, I think it can be really freeing to realize, realize that, um, and you know, at that point there there's no wrong, there's really just kind of exploring forward. So I just wanted to call that out. Cause I thought that was a really kind of really resonant reminder or, or something that really resonated with me.

Elizabeth
And I would also just say baby steps, you know, small steps. It again,

Taly
So you shouldn't just start talking about, butt plugs in your first — no i'm kidding.

Elizabeth
I mean, you can, if that's bag, but I don't, I don't wanna like yuck anyone's yum, byum but I, I, you know, yeah. Like start, start little, be like, I, you know, let me tell you about this smell that I love, or let me tell you about this, you know, this experience that I had, like being out sun tanning and the sun felt so good against my skin, or, you know, you, it doesn't have to be full on all the time and just share pleasure. See how that works.

Taly
Hmm.

Elizabeth
Respond to your partner. See them. Acknowledge them. That's the thing that this is about is the two people really engaging with each other and then work your seduce and tea and flirt and work your way to whatever conversation you wanna have next.

Laura
Yeah, I, I really wanna amplify something you said earlier as well, that really resonated with me and is a strategy I, I've, I think maybe heard it in passing, but had never thought to implement it in my own life. And I think it's really applicable, not just in romantic relationships, but really in any relationship where if you're having a conversation with somebody and things are going in a direction that you don't really intend them to being willing to stop the conversation, check in and say, Hey, this isn't going where I intended it to or where I think either of us want it to go, let's restart. And I, I love that you said, especially making it playful, especially for the bedroom. It's not just, something's gonna get awkward or weird, and we're just gonna stop immediately. And now we're left on this kind of sour note, but we're gonna challenge ourselves to try again. And that's the condition is that we do try again. And I think that that's such a beautiful way to explore relationships, because I think that also helps people put on that, that, training mindset, that learning mindset that I'm here with you right now, mindset, we're learning this together. I care about you. I care about where this is going and I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna start trying to do that more often just in my general life, in my personal life as well. Cause I really think that that could be so effective in just like having, giving us more space to just be people, right?

Taly
it's like the video game. I want the reset button.

Laura
Yeah,

Elizabeth
and, and I think that we, you know, this is I think part and parcel of a really sex negative society, but we spend so much time telling people that the stakes are everything. Like if you mess it up in, you know, you say the wrong thing, they'll hate you forever.

Laura
Mmm.

Elizabeth
listen, be a good actor in the world. As Dan Savage says, be good, giving, and game, but if you are in a good relationship, like the stakes don't have to be everything. And part of the, I think a really useful thing is to just start with there, start with like, I wanna play with you and I don't know where we're gonna go and I don't know how it's gonna go and it's probably gonna get awkward. It's probably gonna get weird. And then we're gonna like figure out what that was. And was that a good weird, or was that a bad weird or like, I don't know, but let's like, that's a weird that maybe we'll just put down and come back to it in a little while. OK, cool. Cool. but giving, giving yourselves the grace and the freedom in this space to play, including to fail, including to wander off in a direction that you didn't intend. And having everybody have a sense that this is not an all or nothing game, right? When, when one of failure destroys everything. Then that's a system in which the safest way to play that game is to not play it at all. Right? Like if, if the smallest misstep is a full break of the system, then you just don't wanna play. But if the smallest misstep is just a chance to learn better and climb higher on this great big mountain of fun and sexy play, then you absolutely wanna be in this game, cuz there's that mountain, and you could get to the top of. It's so it, yeah. Giving people a sense that there's space to make mistakes, I think is a really valuable part of, of getting into intimacy and having intimacy work for both partners. Yeah. So speaking of partners and dates, we would love to transition. Let's talk about Patrick and M's date. So curious, what were your initial thoughts on Patrick and M's communication during their Blink Date? So I thought, so my, my first thought was like, that was a pretty decent date. I was, I was impressed. You know, they kept going, like there wasn't a lot of really awkward pauses or kind of, falls in the conversation where you were just like, oh, I can, someone wants to leave now, but doesn't know how. Um, so I thought it was a pretty good date. I, uh, I definitely thought they jumped topics a little bit, but they always kept moving, which was really good.

Taly
Were there any areas where you think their communication could have been improved?

Elizabeth
think that I noticed that Patrick, I think was a much more of an open person and M seemed a little bit more reticent, you know, a little bit more like, you know, she hadn't, it sort of like got laid in the conversation where she revealed that, where she lived and that wasn't what they thought, you know, that she, I mean, even honestly from their names, like you have Patrick and you have M like, she just seemed a little bit, you know, where my family comes from, it was all a little bit more reticent. And I think that's, that could be personality difference, but it certainly, I noticed the slight difference in the energy. Um, that being said she was there and like asking Patrick questions. And so it definitely wasn't that she wasn't interested entirely. And I think that's just a decision process for someone about where they, how much they feel like disclosing private details when in the process.

Taly
Do you have any advice that you might give them on how to keep the momentum going? If they matched and eventually met in person?

Elizabeth
I mean, I think, it would be, I would love to see that have seen them deeper dive on something. And I think that for me is a real sign of like sparky engagement is when it's not only, oh, we can talk about this topic, but like an hour just went by and we are still talking about this thing. And it's a process of dating of finding those things get you both really excited, but I did. And this is normal for, for a date, but I first conversation, but I did notice that it was like a little bit of conversation, about one thing. And then it was jumping over to a new topic and jumping over to a new topic and jumping over to a new topic.

Taly
Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth
And I think in terms of dating and interaction, you wanna find those places where you can keep talking about something for a while, not to the exclusion of absolutely everything else, but that, you keep asking the other person more about that thing and you, you go deeper in and you share more experiences. I mean, every time you switch topics, it's a little like, okay. I don't wanna hear anything more about that from you, you know? And it's, it's a very subtle signal, but it is there.

Taly
It's definitely like, I think going to what you were saying, like getting more depth. So, you know, you're staying on the surface of each topic instead of digging deeper on each one. So I can definitely see how, and, and in first dates, like you said, it, it's fairly normal, um, because you're, you're meeting this person for the first time, you know, you're figuring out how, how comfortable you feel opening up to them. Um, and so it can be really easy to stay on that, that surface level of, of topics rather than digging deeper.

Elizabeth
And you, you just have to find it, right? Like there's a million topics in the world. And so you gotta kind of shuffle through a whole bunch of them before you find the one where both of you overlap with a passion on that. Um, and so. You, you know, you, you skim a bit, but then all of a sudden it's like, oh wait, we're actually both interested in, you know, 1950s contemporary furniture, like, you know, modern furniture like

Laura
Yeah.

Elizabeth
okay, now let's deep dive, but it took us a little while to figure out that thing that we both got really interested in.

Taly
right.

Laura
Yeah. And I, I, I think also too, the, the context really matters for that initial conversation because when you're doing a first date with someone and in, in this case, on the podcast, they only have 10 minutes to talk to each other. And so I think that's something to, uh, for daters listening. If you are in kind of this speed sort of setting, I feel like that's also, normal to try or it it's normal to wanna speed through things to find that commonality because generally people really want to continue the conversation. Especially if they think someone is interesting, they like the sound of their voice, whatever the case may be, and they're interested in that connection. So they're like, okay, let's bam, bam, bam. Get through all these different topics as quickly as we possibly can to see where that snag is so that we can go deeper on that. Cuz you don't wanna spend the whole 10 minutes talking about something that maybe the other person's not as interested in. and I almost wonder if that would be something that, um, yeah, just like giving people, like tips and tactics on, you know,

Elizabeth
I will say one of the things I was really impressed was the fact that, you know, neither of them really pontificated, you know, there, I wasn't listening to a date where five minutes of it was someone just going off like riffing on their own topic and not letting someone get a word in edgewise. Right. They were really attentive to, I'm gonna say a little bit and then see where it goes. I'm gonna say a little bit and see where it goes. They were engaged in listening for the other person's interest.

Taly
It really seemed to me, they were both very present. So I, I definitely had that feeling as well.

Taly
Yeah, so what are some takeaways from the state that you think are Worth noting when it comes to navigating the dating sphere?

Elizabeth
I would say, I think, um, having an under, like, I really liked this, I did notice the fact that there was a, if there was a question about geography, I would probably, I would just have put on there, you know, might be a little practical tip is if you're looking for someone local or if you're looking for someone distance sort of understanding where that person lives

Taly
That's that's on us. That's that's on me, human matchmaker. Um, so sometimes geography, sadly, isn't one of the things I'm able to match by, but I do my best.

Elizabeth
All, no. All good. All good. I was just, it was just one of those like funny things to put there, but I really loved the way they bumped around on different topics. And they talked about different things. I, I think listening to them talk. It was very clear. One of the things they were both passionate and excited about talking about was, you know, their own histories because we are, but like when they were talking about, you know, being in Boston or being on the Charles or, you know, things, things like that are where they'd li you know, living abroad for their study program and, as a tip for other, daters just those kinds of sharing pieces of your history that are really exciting are something I think everybody loves to do. So it was a really good visual of like, oh yeah, I can ask someone else about, you know, do they like to travel? Or what's the favorite place they've been in the last few years? Because that's something that people get really excited about and leads can lead to some really shared engagements.

Taly
So I have a million dollar question for you. But no real money involved, uh, Date in a Blink, what did you think? Did they match and why, or why not? Do you think that they did or didn't.

Elizabeth
oh, so I think they matched, I think both of them, from my listening, it seemed like both of them were asking questions about the other person and were engaged with the other person. I would say if I'm wrong about that, I felt like Patrick was more into it than like was even more eager than M was, but that would be my, I I'm gonna go with, they matched.

Taly
So I'll share my guess. Yeah. So I also felt that they would match the conversation, felt really easy and comfortable, uh, and not, you know, we've, we've listened to a lot of dates and we've definitely heard ones where they didn't have that, that level of ease. And so it felt, it felt like to me that they would definitely want to continue chatting and getting to know one another. So, Laura, what really happened?

Laura
Yeah. So you are both right. They did match.

Elizabeth
Woo.

Taly
Yay.

Laura
yeah, but I, I do think that in this case, um, I know that they, they said that they wanted to match with each other, but then the conversation didn't really take off. And I, I partially feel like that might be a geography thing. It is really hard to date someone across the country, even if you had such a great conversation. That's not to say we have talked to so many people who have had these kind of chance encounters with someone that lived, not even just across the country, but in a different country, on a different continent as themselves made it work and have been, you know, together with someone for a very long time. So it's not to say that that distance is a deal breaker. I think that, and just getting busy, definitely impacted their ability to continue the conversation, but it was great. Some of the feedback we got is that they said it was a fun and unique experience. It reminded them of the Netflix show, Love is Blind, which we, we do get a lot. Um, and then also that they loved the audio format. They felt it was more relaxed and they usually feel when they go on dates and it help them, uh, lower these kind of superficial barriers that people put on themselves and on others. And it allowed them to focus more on being themselves, which fills my heart with joy. Yeah.

Elizabeth
I love that. That's awesome.

Laura
Yeah. So as we wrap up a question, we'd love to ask all of our experts. Do you have any words of wisdom or advice for our audience?

Elizabeth
I would say, you know, be open to who you find. I think we, many, a million years ago, there was a dating app that had a on staff statistician and used to do all kinds of interesting blog posts about the underlying data. And they looked at what, the number, one thing that their couples had in common when they made couples. And it was how they thought about horror movies. Like it wasn't.

Laura
Oh,

Elizabeth
Totally was. It was, that was, that was the thing that the Mo most of the most couples, the thing that the most couples shared. Was that how they felt about horror movies. It wasn't religion, it wasn't

Taly
I love this so much. Elizabeth
education. It wasn't, you know what I mean? And honestly, just to be clear, it didn't matter what each partner thought about horror movies. The couple just had to have the same take. They could love them. They could hate them. They just had to share their belief in how they felt about horror movies.

Taly
now that should be the, the, the, Litmus test as people go into dating, you just ask in the first date, what do you think about horror? I'm kidding. That shouldn't be, but it's just, it's crazy.

Elizabeth
For me. Yeah, for me, it's just a really, it's a clear indication that a lot of the time, I think the things that we think are important, what's your education? What kind of job do you have? They're not, yeah, exactly. They're not nearly as actually important to the, to being the person that we're gonna wanna spend years of our lives with, as we might think. So. open to how you, how and where you find that person and what that person looks like or has done in their life. Yeah. Just be open.

Laura
You never know where love is going

Taly
to find you. It's the best advice. Yeah.

Elizabeth
You never know.

Laura
Yeah. So thank you so much for that advice and for joining us today and as our final question. Yeah. How can our audience get connected with you?

Elizabeth
Oh, well, you can find Amorus in the App Store. We are an iOS only app at the moment. So, uh, yes, A M O R U S is how you spell it. Uh, you can also find us on social media. We are @Amorusapp everywhere where there are socials and yeah, we always love to get feedback. Always love to get people's opinions. Uh, you can sign up on our website, all kinds of stuff, but yes, A M O R U S is us AMS.

Laura
O R U S. All right. Well

Taly
And I will put all of that in the show notes. Just

Elizabeth
Aw, thank you. Perfect.

Taly
Ease of access.

Laura
All right, well, thank you so much for joining us today.

Elizabeth
you, this was wonderful. Really appreciate it.

[advert]

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Laura
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re hosting M and Peter for a Blink Date!

Taly
Modern dating sucks. But it doesn’t have to! Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you’ll listen in on 10 minute voice-only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It’s time to stop collecting penpals and start, oh, I don’t know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating?! Is that even a thing anymore?! But for real, dating should be fun! We hope listening in inspires y’all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we’ll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our hand-picked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after ten minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out!

Laura
Before we jump into today’s Blink Date, here’s a quick word from our sponsors.

[sponsored content]

Laura
We're here on Date in a Blink today with M and Patrick. I'm going to let you two dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question: what item, big or small, would you like to add to your home?

Patrick
Well, that's, uh, I've never thought about that. where I haven't thought about that in a, for a while.

Patrick
Uh, just cuz we've been here for out, but uh, no. Nice, nice to meet you, M. M
Nice to meet you too, Patrick. Um, let's see. So I recently moved to a new apartment and I have been decorating, and so one thing that I would add that I don't currently have is some like live house plans. Like a bunch of them I would look a bunch like put around my room. M
Yeah.

Patrick
I was, I was actually, okay, so this is, this is pretty funny, uh, Quite literally last week I was telling my roommates, Hey, you know, what'd be really cool if, if we got like some plants. Um, so I, I was actually thinking, going Home Depot tomorrow to, to buy some, uh, some plants, but I was inspired by this guy I talked to, uh, from New York and I thought it, it was over zoom and I thought his background was fake, uh, but it was real. And it was just like this elaborate, like collection of plants, like hanging from the ceiling. It was like,

M
Oh, wow. Yeah, like I have a whole Pinterest board where I have like things that I want to get into my apartment and I see a lot of people with like the plants all over, but like, I think you totally should get the plants that you wanted. Um, let's see. I also, I'm a big candles person, so I typically like every time I go to Target, I always pick up a candle or two or sometimes three, but yeah, that's another thing I would add.

Patrick
Uh, yeah, I like growing up. I, I, I was just like, we never had candles at home just cause like my, my dad was allergic to them, which I didn't know that was like a thing. Yeah. Until cuz it, it turns out that like when the candle burns it. I guess like small little like wax particles and like some people are allergic. So, um, so I thought my dad was like crazy and then, um, I started with my, my roommates and then one of them was also allergic to candles. And so now, like the two of us, like we have our own candles, but like, he, we can't like burn it in front of him. it's like kinda weird. Oh,

M
so can you be like, can you guys have like soy candles or no?

Patrick
Oh yeah. I've never tried soy candles. Cause it, yeah, it might be like the wax, um, of like normal candles. That, that might be what they're allergic to.

M
Oh, I see. So like, where did you grow up? Where are you from?

Patrick
Um, so I grew up in Walnut, uh, which is like an hour inland from Los Angeles. Uh, but my family's from Argentina. So growing up, it was like really interesting, uh, because Walnut was like 90% Chinese Taiwanese, um, uh, and, and my family, you know, my family is from Argentina, so I go home, speak Spanish, go to you know, experience like that culture. And then I ended up going to school, um, at Loyola Marymount university. And so when I got here, I was like, wait, why there's so many white people I was like, what's going on? Um, so I had like a really, um, interesting, like, uh, exposure, like growing up to like different cultures. But how about, how about you?

M
Oh, I see. So my family's from New York, but I've lived all over the place. I've lived in Copenhagen. I also spent time in Canada as well. Yeah. So I, I went to school, I would say my school was pretty diverse. Um, I had a lot of friends from like different cultural backgrounds and I thought that was pretty cool.

Patrick
Mm. Gotcha. And do you hike or do like, like when you're at Copenhagen, like, were you, were you hiking doing outdoor stuff or like, um, how come you, you lived in, in that place?

M
Yeah, so, um, I should probably clarify when I lived there, I did a study abroad, so I was there for like two months. So. Sorry, I should have clarified that, but, um, while I was there, I, so, there's not a lot of cars there. A lot of people get around by bike and scooter. So that was mainly how I was getting around. And like, they have this like giant shopping mall. I forgot what it was called, but apparently it's like the largest shopping mall in Europe. So like we would always go there and then they have a lot of like old castles that you can go and like tour that's so cool. So we did that. Yeah. So that was fun. I tried to learn some Danish, but , I wasn't very good at it. Yeah. It was pretty hard. Yeah.

Patrick
And did your family like, were they like, um, Like from New York, um, or, or did they like come from elsewhere? Like when you grew up?

M
Yeah. So, um, I have family from all over the place. Like I have family in, um, parts of like Africa. I have family in like the DR as well, so oh, wow. All over the place. Yeah.

Patrick
That's really cool.

M
Yeah.

Patrick
Yeah. I, for me, like growing up is, is weird because, um, you know, we, we do one Christmas here because my fam, my mom's family, they all immigrated here. Um, so we do Christmas, like the typical, like whatever, um, Christmas tree presents, all that. Um, but then the, like every other year we would do Christmas in Argentina with like my dad's side. And what was like really odd was over there, it's like opposite, um, uh, seasons mm-hmm . So it'd be like Christmas, but like summer . Oh. Um, and everybody's just like, you know, in, in a bathing suit outside, like it's just super hot, um, and humid. Um, but yeah, like, definitely growing up with like family across, like the world was like really interesting.

M
That's so cool. I love that. Is there, like, what's your favorite, like Argentinian food?

Patrick
Um, that's a really good question. Um, so like salty food, like gnocchi, it's like a type of pasta. Um, and actually like, I like cooking, so I like making them out like ricotta. Um, but then I'm a real, like, I have a sweet tooth, so I do like. Um, like facturas, which is like the Argentinian, uh, pastries. Um, but yeah, so, well, actually what's, what's your favorite, uh, food? I mean, it doesn't have to be Argentinian, what's your favorite food?

M
So I really love Mediterranean food, so I, oh yeah. My friends make fun of me. I'm kind of like a falafel snob. Like, we'll go around to like different restaurants and like try the falafel. And I like rank them based on like, which restaurants in our area has the best and which ones are not so good. But, um, I really love Mediterranean.

Patrick
Mm. Got you. And, and like, have you, have you ever had, um, like Persian food? like more like Lebanese or like,

M
yes, I have

Patrick
Iranian. Okay.

M
Yeah. Mm-hmm

Patrick
so do you, have you, have you compared like, cause I know they have like certain similarities, so like, do you prefer like more Greek style or like Persian or Lebanese?

M
Honestly, I like it all okay. Yeah. When it comes to food, I'm honestly not picky at all, so I I'll try anything.

Patrick
Got you. Um, and are you, are you like, do you live in LA?

M
Uh, no, so I live on the east coast actually.

Patrick
Oh, so are you in New York?

M
Uh, so I moved out to new England area.

Patrick
Oh, okay.

M
It's really cold. Now. We just had a big blizzard yesterday.

Patrick
Oh yeah. I saw, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was, I was in Boston for a summer and. I was like, oh, it's so great here. Like I wanna move here. And then they showed me a picture of like the winter and I was like, uh, yeah, I dunno about that.

M
Oh my gosh. Every time it gets really cold. I'm like, man, I should probably move like, but I've stayed for like the past two years, so.

Patrick
Oh, wow. Well, so what, what do you do like during the winter? Like how do you, I guess like stay sane while being like inside in it, like snowing outside?

M
Yeah. I mean, so thankfully we have heat in this apartment. Yeah. Um, and I really like the snow. I like playing in the snow and like, oh, okay. Sometimes me and my friends will go out and play in it. And then, um, you know, it's the thing is like, for example, the blizzard that we had yesterday, it was all snowy, everywhere. And now today it's like all completely, almost melted, so

Patrick
oh, wow.

M
Cause it usually lasts long. Yeah.

Patrick
Gotcha. So you get like a lot of slush.

M
Yeah.

Patrick
Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah,

M
but it's fun to play in .

Patrick
Yeah, no, that's cool. Um, and then do you, do you do any like snow sports at all? Or just like mostly just playing in the snow

Patrick
yeah, mainly just like building snowman, but I would really love to go skiing. I've never done that before. Have you?

Patrick
Uh, yeah, no. I've, um, I learned when I like high school when I was like six . So, and I like always loved it. Yeah. So I, I like love skiing, uh, but I've never skied in the east coast. Um, I, I, I heard that's like more icy over there. Mm-hmm just because it's the, the mountains are lower, like in Vermont. Yeah. Um, but definitely something I like to do one day.

M
That's cool. I guess you probably do like warmer things, like go to the beach and do you, um, surf at all?

Patrick
I do surf . I actually went yesterday. Uh, but I'm still like learning so surfing. I picked up like two years ago. Um, so I like, I suck at surfing, but I still have like a good time. And what's cool is like sometimes the dolphins come out. Oh, um, yeah. So, so the past couple of, uh, times I've. Actually had dolphins like swim underneath me and like pop up on the left. So it's I dunno. Oh, thank you. Gosh, that's so like, it's like, I don't have to catch a wave, but just like being out on the water with dolphins that it's worth it.

M
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Like over the summer, um, I went to, so I visited Boston in the summer and there's something called the reflecting pool and basically, oh, I don't know what it is about, like being around water, kinda like what you were saying. It just calms me just like being around water. Um, we went to that and then we also went to the Charles mm-hmm and just like sitting by it, it was just so peaceful. So like mm-hmm yeah,

Patrick
that's cool. Yeah. I miss the Charles river. I used to like run, I go on runs like up and down outta the river. Cause I was, I was living like right next to, um, like Harvard yard. Like I got like an apartment there. So I was like, uh, like that's the one thing about the east coast is there's so much more history over there. Um, and like the buildings, like, I don't know.

[sponsored content]

Laura
Patrick and M started the call off strong being on the same page about bringing in house plants to their homes. I loved how curious both were about each other — they both asked such genuine follow up questions that I feel like they could’ve kept talking all day. I was surprised to learn people can be allergic to candles, like Patrick’s dad, and loved hearing how M described herself as a falafel snob.

Patrick and M both haven’t been skiing yet — do we think they’ve got a trip to hit the slopes in their future, or will these two stay looking at separate bodies of water?

Tune in next week where we’ll chat with an expert and reveal what happened.

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re joined by Jaime Bronstein, a relationship coach, author, speaker, and host of the Love Talk Live show on LA Talk Radio.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink dates? Or when they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

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Taly
We're here on Date in a Blink today with relationship coach, therapist, and host of Love Talk Live on LA Talk Radio, Jamie Bronstein. Jamie's work empowers her clients to become aware that they were born to have love in their lives. Not just any love, the right love for them. Jamie shares her relationship advice on various media outlets, such as KTLA, Forbes, the New York Times, and People. Taly
Jamie has a BA in Psychology from Boston University, a Master's Degree from New York University, and a certificate in spiritual psychology from the University of Santa Monica. Jamie's education, and over 20 years of experience, enable her to help her clients heal, seeing each challenge in life as an opportunity to evolve as an individual to manifest love and live life to its fullest extent. She's on a mission to create a positive impact while changing lives worldwide. Hi, Jamie. We're so excited to host you today and learn more about your background as a relationship coach, therapist, and host of the Love Talk Live on LA Talk Radio, and of course, to chat about Peter and Jess's date. It's such a pleasure to have you on.

Jaime
Well, thank you so much. And you know, I love talking about anything that has to do with dating and relationships. So I'm thrilled to be here to talk about this today.

Taly
Awesome. So Jamie, in your blog, you write about how being intentional in life and especially in our relationships can make a world of difference. Can you explain a bit about what being intentional and intentional in the context of a relationship looks like? And some of the benefits that can come from that?

Jaime
Sure. So let's just start with what I believe is the opposite of being intentional and that would be sleeping. So I always recommend being an active participant in your life. And this is in your life. And then also in your relationship. So being intentional is being intentional about your communication, about sharing, how you're feeling with one another, making sure you're on the same page and being intentional about your love. You know, instead of you are surviving in your relationship, you are actually thriving and you're growing and that's, that's the goal. That's the goal of any healthy relationship to not just get through every day, but to actually have a purpose of your relationship. So I would say that is the, the benefit of being intentional.

Taly
And as a, a quick follow up question to that with sleeping, being the opposite of intentional, which is a fun kind of end of the spectrum, um, where do you kind of recommend that people might start? Because going from sleeping to totally intentional, that might be like a lot, are there some practical things that you can recommend to somebody who's dating and trying to figure out like, okay, I've done nothing to be intentional thus far, what's the first thing that I could potentially do to start being more intentional?

Jaime
Okay, well, lucky for all your listeners. I'm writing. Uh, I am writing a book about manifesting love. It's gonna be published in January right in time for Valentine's Day. But anyhow, so I mean, this would be the steps to manifesting love and, and some of them are, of all, it starts with loving yourself unconditionally, loving yourself and, and showing up in life authentically. So doing that work, healing your past, instead of just walking around like a chicken with its head cut off, you are being intentional. You are doing that work to really get to know you at your heart so that you can manifest like a magnet, the right person for you. So that's being intentional, doing that work, doing that work to really show up as you, because through the law of attraction, you need to be showing up as you to attract a person that's aligned with that. So unconditional loving yourself, also living as if it's already happening, believing that it's going to happen and not living in fear, but living in faith and trust, like I said, believing, and also a little surrendering and et cetera. There's there's lot. I mean, this could be 12 shows

Taly
The, the chickens with the heads cut off, now I'm imagining people like I live in New York, so now I'm imagining walking down the sidewalk and envisioning everyone with like a, like a chicken with their head cut off. But, um, another thing that you mentioned that I think is really interesting is really imagining that it's so already. And one thing that I did when I was leaving a career for something else, somebody told me this and I thought it was really cool instead of talking about wanting to do it or what I wanted to do, actually going out into the world. And let's say I was at the dog park and I struck up the conversation with someone and they asked what I do saying that I did this other thing instead of what I'm doing now and wanting to change and basically saying, you know, oh right now I'm doing. X Y Z and seeing how it feels, just kind of like trying it on. And obviously in relationships, you can't just pretend like, yes, you can make up an imaginary, significant other, but just kind of going through life and, um, trying it on in a slightly different way can be a really interesting way to see how you feel about that scenario. So I just thought that was a really interesting thought, cause I've never thought about applying that concept outside of, you know, careers or changes like that, but in the context of relationships, so maybe not exactly parallel, but just an interesting thought as you were speaking.

Jaime
Yes. And practical things that people can do, it might sound silly, but it literally works is for instance, undo both sides of your bed at night

Taly
Wait, what?

Jaime
The universe needs to know that there is room. So you're living as if that person's already there. Or if you pour yourself a glass of wine, if you set yourself, if you, if you're by yourself and you're eating by yourself at dinner, set your, your, your future significant other, um, a place setting or some wine, I dunno, sounds kind of funny, but that is living as if, and, and also I'm a very spiritual person. So talk to talk to their soul. Kind of walk around and just, you know, talk to them or before you go to sleep at night, you know, how was your day? I'm not kidding these things, these things work.

Taly
When you said undo both sides of the bed. I thought you meant the foot of the bed. And then I was like, why would you somebody do that? What a monster. And then I realized that you meant both sides were humans sleep. Now it makes a lot more sense.

Jaime
oh yes. Um, and also, I just wanna give an example, of living as if something that happened over the weekend, I was at a reunion for my spiritual psychology school and it was just so wonderful to all be together, cuz my third year of school, it was on zoom, anyhow. So we got to see each other in person. And apparently this, this classmate of mine, this isn't about relationships, but it's, it's about living as if and it's about, um, success and your profession. He apparently has this company where he only hires $20,000 speakers. And so, um, somebody had introduced me

Taly
say now? Holy...

Jaime
Met in person and they were saying, you know, Jamie would be such a great speaker. And the thing is he just, he just hires business speakers, not necessarily relationship speakers, but, um, I said, oh yeah, I'm a $20,000 speaker. And, and then I was sitting around with some friends. I said, yes, we're actually all $50 to $80,000 speaker. So it was just, it was putting my work into practice, um, because

Taly
Did he book you Are you? I, I think he should book you.

Jaime He doesn't do. Um, he doesn't hire relationship speakers, but it was felt amazing to say that because I mean, I do, I do charge a lot to speak, but it's not quite $20,000 yet, but I put it into existence.

Taly
I love the yet part of that sentence.

Jaime
Yes.

Laura I feel like that's a really great segue into talking about thriving. It's not just about existing, but truly thriving. And one of the things that you define that as is to operate to the best of your ability on all cylinders for body, mind, and spirit. So what are some advice that you have for finding balance between all three of these things and more specifically, what might that look like in a relationship? Whether it's the relationship with yourself as you're trying to find a partner or with, you know, your long term partner, I'm curious your thoughts on that.

Jaime Yeah, so thriving is when body, mind, spirit, it, you are, you're kind of all on, I would say vibrating high, you know, like there's like low when you are in a low vibration it's depression, let's just say, and so vibrating high, everything is going well. And. Balance is such a great word because there's this outward balance in life, like work life, home life, but then there's also this inward balance. Like you don't just wanna be a cerebral person without being in touch with your heart. Let's say so that would not be a balanced and thriving individual if you never work out, but you're such a feeler and you're such a thinker, your body, is, it's just not optimal, you know. So to thrive altogether, I would recommend moving your body, feeling your feelings and allowing your thoughts to flow no matter what. And I have a whole thing on fear, um, the ego, our mind, you know, some people have unwanted thoughts and, and there's that negative. Voice. And I do a lot of work with my clients on getting a hold of that, just inviting it in and say, thank you for showing up, but I got this. And so it's, thriving is also taking hold, taking control back from that negative voice. So it's having a healthy mind, body, soul, spirit.

Taly The negative voice that really, I feel like we all listen to that negative voice, maybe a little too much. So I really like the idea of taking things back from it.

Jaime Yeah. Yeah. I always say you, um, kindly say to your ego, I drive the bus of my life. You don't run the show and what you do, just a simple thing is when you feel like it's taking over way too much, you just need to get quiet and you drop down into your heart because your heart is your authentic self. That's where your authentic self and your soul who's the real you is located.

Taly oh, I love that so much.

Laura it's. I don't know why, but for some reason I'm coming up with a mental imagery and I'm, I'm sure you've heard this before, where there's this phrase about emotions where it's like, emotions are kind of like having kids in the car. You're not gonna let them drive the car, but you're also not gonna put them in the trunk.

Jaime Yes.

Taly You can't, you can't do that?

Laura You had one of those old station wagons and the trunk is just the backseat, which used to have a bench seat in it. I might be dating myself a little bit, but.

Taly For listeners, I'm totally kidding.

Jaime
And sometimes it's hard to shut them up. Right. Hard to shut off that voice. It's it can be almost impossible unless you're meditating, let's say, but even during meditation, that voice it's called in yoga, it's called the, the Citta C I T T A it's that chatter. And, but the more that you do invite it in, instead of resisting it and pushing it away, the more you can befriend it, let's say, and have a little convo and say what I said before, which is, um, you don't own the show. Um, false fear is false evidence appearing real. That's Catherine, um, Katie. Oh my God, Katie, Byron, Byron, Katie. She, she made that acronym. Um, and that's what the, that's what our egos SP out fear based thoughts and lies.

Taly I'm thinking now of that movie, was that Pixar movie. Oh crap. What was it? Where

Jaime
yeah. Insight.

Taly Yes. Inside. Right? What was it called?

Jaime
I think insight out, maybe. I don't

Taly Inside out. Yes, yes. Yes. Where all the little portions of the personality had like a, an actual character in the little girl's head and you see how they all play out and interact with each other. And the ways that, you know, different things can trigger one or another and, and how you can kind of, I don't know. It just, it, it really is making me think of that movie. Um, so maybe I'm just visualizing everything today. Cause I also thought about the chickens with the head cut off.

Jaime
Good. You're a visualizer that means you're creative.

Taly Um, so I have another question for you. So you make a distinction between unhealthy infatuation and crushes, and I'm sure many of us, if not, all of us have experienced both. And I'm wondering if you, um, have any thoughts on how we can identify which of the two we're experiencing and what we should do if we find ourselves slipping into the territory of unhealthy infatuation.

Jaime
Yeah, so unhealthy infatuation the, the key to knowing that is if it's 100% just not reciprocated

Taly Mm.

Jaime
You know, just, you gotta ask yourself, am I,

Taly I think the problem is people don't they'll ask themselves, but give themselves the wrong answer.

Jaime
they can rationalize. Yes. Um, So an unhealthy infatuation is let's say stalking, whether it's like literally stalking or, um, just focusing so much, let's say on social media, just constantly looking at this, person's, what they're doing with their life. And so basically it's an unhealthy infatuation, like I said, if you're not getting anything in return, like you're this little puppy dog that's like, please, please, please love me. Love me please. And nothing. Although. If you see a cute puppy dog, of course you're gonna love it. So I think just the, the visual

Taly All over it.

Jaime
the, the image of that puppy dog, just being like, play with me, play with me. Um, and then healthy crush is, you know what? You, it just feels good and you're open to it, not working out. That's the other thing, if you have an unhealthy infatuation, you're so focused on like this person being the only possibility in your whole life ever. So that also makes unhealthy because spiritually you want to tell the universe that I believe in abundance, there are endless opportunities for me. If it's not this one, it'll be somebody else. So that's, that's a healthy crush. And also with a healthy crush, usually there is a healthy crush would have, like you're getting some feedback and, and the person is liking you back. Also, whether it's gonna be turn into a relationship or.

Jaime
I'm really digging this concept of abundance. And I think that that's something a lot of daters in today's day and age, don't think about, I think there's such a scarcity mindset and there's an illusion of abundance that people tap into and a false sense of progress with those illusions that we have.

Laura
Cause like, for example, if you're just on a dating app and you're just swiping endlessly on 20,000 profiles, it feels like there's a sense of abundance, but there's also.

Jaime
Mm.

Laura
A weird sense of, I think desperation in that as well. Not for everybody, but depending on the head space that you're in, where there's this, I think interesting juxtaposition between. I hope this person is my person, and I'm gonna opt out of all these, you know, 20,000 profiles that I'm swiping through. So there's just like this really interesting, I think behavior that people are experiencing in today's day and age where there's yeah, just those two things, but they're not like true abundance, right? It's not coming at it from this perspective of, truly feeling that way. Um, and so kind of shifting gears a teensy bit, I think one of the more challenging things about infatuation is that it feels so real. You know, each person that you're going on a date with and each person that you're, you know, swiping on or making those connections with. And it can really be quite consuming and crazy as it may be, the unhealthy infatuation can feel a lot like what people might think is love. And so is there any way to walk back from unhealthy infatuation and create a better, healthier space to inhabit or should, whatever it is, that's sparking that infatuation be left behind altogether? So, well, time will, time is amazing. Um, cause it will time will tell, you know, I would say do. Look at it as an experiment. You know, if, if you're feeling these, these big feelings, infatuation feelings, yeah. Allow yourself to feel way because it, you haven't determined yet. Is it a crush or an unhealthy infatuation, only time will tell and your dates, behavior, and words and everything, and actions will determine. You know, the course of, of this relationship what's gonna happen. So just once again, the answer always is to be flexible and be open and not super Uber focused that it has to be this one person. And I write about that in my book because so the universe gives us what we focus. Which means that you might think that if you're focused on one person, then you're actually gonna manifest that because you're so focused, but it's actually the opposite because along with focusing so much on one person is actually the fear that it's not gonna work out.

Laura
So that's actually what you're focusing on and that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. So that's why you need to focus on, I trust that if this is supposed to work out, it will. And if it doesn't, there will be the right person for me. And then you could add in it's a spiritual phrase for the highest good of all concern. Taly
that's such a beautiful way to think about it. And I think you're right. Like oftentimes people do focus on that, the one person and they focus on all the things that work or don't work with that one person instead of like, you know, taking that step back and just saying. This is an exploration and you know, I'm gonna continue getting to know them. They're gonna continue getting to know me. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, then I'll move on to the next person and start getting to know them. I think we just get so wrapped up in the concept of the one and we're constantly hunting for the one that we, we get lost in it. Um, and I think you're right. Like we, we, I think there is a lot of fear wrapped up in our search for that person. Um, So I, I do like that perspective of, you know, approaching it from a different angle.

Jaime
So yeah, you can't have this fear. It's so interesting. Once you just surrender. Then your person comes in into your life and a little nuggets. I don't know if this is going to resonate or really make sense with everybody in, in the way that I'm going to try to articulate it. But this came to me, I dunno, within the past year or so. And it's the concept that your soulmate is a fact. Like it is a fact that you came to this world, to be with this person and they came to this world to be with you. So it takes the weight and the pressure off of your shoulders. So many times people, they, they suffer. They make me feel crazy. Should I be with this person? Should I not be with this person? I don't know. And then if it doesn't feel right, it's just not your person or, Ugh. I wish this would've worked out. And if you just look at it, is a fact that like my soulmate is somewhere. So it just takes off this fear and this pressure and this anxiety cuz it, and it's like, if it doesn't work out, it's also

Taly
It means you're one step closer to finding that soulmate, cuz you've ruled out one more person.

Jaime
I love that. Yes. And thank the universe for protecting you because the universe has your back. Yes. One last person. Um, yes. To, to wonder if it's that person that's good.

Taly
So, you know, some of what you're you're sharing kind of goes a lot to intuition, inner senses, like the spirituality that you mentioned earlier. So, you know, it's something that not everyone necessarily has paid much attention to in their own lives, their own inner compass, their intuition. And so I'm curious if you have any advice for folks who wanna become more in touch with their, uh, inner compass, any suggestions as to how they can paying more attention to that intuition?

Jaime Um, email me and we can set up an appointment. um, so this is my favorite topic and it's probably because it's been the most transformational for me, life changing. I've always been an intuitive person. I'm a Pisces. And I attribute it to that. I dunno. Um, but once I started, literally studying intuition and strengthening my intuitive muscle, which is what I help people do. it's just life changing. It's being in your integrity, which is doing what you know is right for you, which you are the expert of yourself. So no one, your aunt, your best friend, your mom, like nobody else knows you better and know what's better for you now. A lot of people come to me and they they're confused about, well, I don't know. Is it, is it fear or is it my intuition? And so if it's fear, if you're feeling fear, that's not, that's just a no.

Taly
Mm-hmm

Jaime
type of fear is a no. If you have to talk yourself into something, that's a no, a yes. Is this feels amazing. This feels aligned. And until you have that feeling, everything else is going to be settling,

Taly
what happens for those in between? Cuz sometimes it's not a hell yes or a hell no, it's just a, I don't, I don't know.

Jaime
Yeah. And.

Taly how do you handle those scenarios?

Jaime
So that can happen. And I call this, you just haven't gotten your clarity yet.

Taly
Mmm.

Jaime
So because sometimes we don't, sometimes it isn't like an interim, you know, and I'm not, I'm not sure. So the thing about clarity is that you can't, and you shouldn't push it,

Taly Mmm.

Jaime
just allow, allow it to come to you because it always will. And it, no matter how long it takes, never make a decision until you have a clear yes or no. And in terms of your intuitive muscle, I always say start small. Like if you are at a restaurant and you are that person that struggles over deciding what to get on the menu,

Taly I dunno what you're talking about. Okay.

Jaime
we we've all been there. Um, some people. Base it on what other people are getting. Some people ask the waiter waitress just, and it might look silly, especially if we're on a date, but close your eyes for a second for one second, even, and just ask yourself, what am I in the mood to eat? And your answer will just be there. Our answers are always within. We just need to get quiet.

Taly For me, one thing that I have always found is you, you know, when you, you pick something and you you're like, no, actually I don't want that, that like moment of choosing the wrong thing helps me realize the, the right thing or the thing that I really wanted.

Jaime
Yeah. Like they'll go around to the other people at the table. And then, yeah.

Taly Yeah. You're like, actually, no, no, I didn't want that one. I want this other dish that I yeah. Was, was vacillating on earlier.

Jaime
and the thing is there are so many factors that go into like, specifically. Uh, choosing what to order, but it can also be a metaphor for relationships. Cuz for instance, if you are trying to be healthy, maybe you really wanna get the cheeseburger, but you're gonna, but you are battling inside. Should I just get the salad? But this is also intuitive eating, you know, eat. What if your body is craving something? Okay. I'm not saying go eat McDonald's every. However, maybe your body needs that extra protein from that source. So get the cheeseburger. So just, it, it is about listening to your body and your mind and yourself. Don't listen to mind. I mean, listen to it, but then say I'm gonna focus on my heart.

Laura
I have a little fun fact that I wanna share with you all. Cause I learned it over the weekend and it's blown my mind. Did you know, there's a person on this planet who has eaten nothing but a big Mac for every single meal for the last 50 years?

Taly What

Jaime
Heard something about that. And they're

Taly wait really?

Jaime
right?

Laura
healthy. Yeah. Um, it is astonishing. They're in the Guinness book of world records and the guy is like, he's not skinny as a twig, but he's not gigantic either. Um, but it was more for getting into the Guinness book of world, world records. It's just talking about eating a cheeseburger and you know, oh, don't get McDonald's a every day reminded me of that. And I felt compelled to share that

Taly eat anything other than that? is it only that?

Laura
I don't actually know the answer to that, but he has eaten McDonald's I think at least twice a day, or at least once a day. And he is only missing. Yeah. He's only missed eight days in the last, um,

Jaime
Oh my God.

Laura
50 years over 50 years now at this point,

Jaime
So you should put the link in the show notes.

Taly I

Laura
I should, yeah, it's in the Guinness book of world records. Yeah.

Jaime
my grandma she's 93 and, she was basically, we just had this conversation recently, cuz I tried to help her. I'm like eat cucumbers, they're good for your brain. Cuz she had like these two strokes recently, like eat avocados. So I try to help healthy, but also I want her to enjoy her life obviously. And she said, you know, um, Betty White who had just passed away around then we were having these conversations. She said, I heard that her favorite food was hot dogs. It was really cute. She said she ate a lot of hot dogs and she lived till however oh. And I said, yes. You know, like, and the fact that my gram, maybe she's, I, she smoked a long time ago, but she's 93 and she, she just kind, she eats what she wants to eat, which is so wonderful.

Laura
Yeah. Yeah. So switching gears and you

Jaime
That's grams. I love gram.

Laura
Yeah. Um, So, speaking of, kind of being in touch with one's own intuition, I'm curious, how do we extend this thread from just not how it benefits yourself, but how could it be beneficial in someone's relationships?

Jaime
Yes, I love it. So intuition in this sense is similar to empathy. So it's important, like I just sounded like I was from the south. That was weird. Um, okay. Am empathy. So it's important to, to tap into as best as you can to what the other person is feeling. And so if you are not necessarily the most intuitive person, just focus on your empathy, how would this make the other person feel if you're, you know, going to be communicating with something or, getting a sense of picking up on how this other person is, is feeling like, let's say you're with somebody who isn't the best communicator and they're in a bad mood instead of taking it personally, just say, Hey, what's going on? I'm here to listen. Things like that. So it's, it's just being in tune and that is such a healthy relationship when you can be in tune with each other and you actually care , that's, that's important.

Taly
And you actually care. That's a, a low bar, but a, a very important one.

Jaime
Yeah.

Taly
Transitioning to chat a little bit about Jess and Peter's date. I'm wondering if there are any moments during the date that stood out to you as being especially positive? Jaime
So a few positive things were, they seemed like the conversation flowed and it seemed like they had a lot in common. Um, It seemed like they were genuinely interested in learning more about each other. So I would say those would be the positive things. And I definitely have a lot more to say about the date.

Taly
I mean, we don't, now I wanna know, uh, if there's something in particular you won't, uh, wanna share in terms of your thoughts about the date.

Jaime
So those are the positive things. Um, a few things that I would say that really stuck outta my mind were both of them seemed to speak with a question at the end of their statement. Do you know what I'm talking about? When people do that,

Laura
yeah, uptalk.

Jaime
which shows a little lack of confidence. I also felt like, um, Peter. Was talking a little too much. And it seemed like Jess, Jess or Jessie, Jess, what was it? Jess seemed like she was asking him way more questions than he was asking her. So advice for him would, would be to, he needs to reciprocate and ask more questions, seemed to be like all about him a little bit. And once again for him, um, he was like, instead of namedropping, he was. Money dropping kind of, I don't know. I felt like he mentioned a hundred dollars something and then, oh, do you go to Equinox and Equinox? And I don't know. It just felt like, and, and Cornell and just, I don't know, he was trying to impress her, but it's, and it's hard to do, especially if it's audio and it's not in person, but it's always better to show like show overtell and just to trust that. it's meant to be, then they'll, he'll have the opportunity for this in person thing eventually. But I felt like he was showing off trying a little bit too hard. I dunno.

Taly
Hmm. I did notice there was a lot of a one side. There was a, it felt a little one-sided early on, but I think it just over halfway, I, I remember at some point Peter jumped in to ask Jess questions. I was like, yes, finally. Um, So. I, I think there's like a component also, as you're getting to know someone of like getting into that flow and it's hard, especially in the short timeframe. So, um, I don't necessarily have the solution, but in my mind, what I always try to do when I'm meeting someone new is if I find myself with like talking for more than 60 seconds, just about myself to take a step back and be like, hold is, hold up, let me, let me remember something that they said and ask them about that because this shouldn't just be about me. And I know 60 seconds is sort of arbitrary. Really, if we're talking about ourselves for more than 60 seconds, that's, that's already a long time, I think, but

Jaime
Yeah. And then if every question and every topic is about you, I mean that, and that's also a good sign. I always tell my clients, if you, if you don't feel intrigued and, and drawn to ask the other person questions, that's also an indication that you might not be interested with this. It was not that situation at all,

Taly
right.

Jaime
But, Just in general. Um, you know, that you're interested in intrigued by somebody. I feel like when you wanna ask them questions, but I think he was just a little nervous and trying to impress.

Laura
Hmm. I think this is a good tee up to the next question. When it comes to a 10 minute date where you aren't able to gauge somebody's body language, how might someone tap into their intuition to gauge whether or not someone would be a good fit for them?

Jaime
Well, voice is really big. I mean, they've done, there are studies on attraction, just like there's studies about pheromones, there are studies about, attraction to voices.

Taly
Mm-hmm

Jaime
so once again, it would just be asking yourself, does this feel comfortable? Is this fun? Does this, is this flowing? Um, and of course, sometimes it, a lot of times, for most people it can be very nerve wracking, but at the same time, when something's going to turn into a relationship, usually even the first encounter is pretty flowy.

Taly
mm-hmm

Jaime
So if it feels, if it doesn't feel forced, if it feels natural, that's usually a really good indication. And even if it's audio.

Taly
I love, I love that. Uh, you're tapping into the, some of the audio benefits because we've, we've thought and talked about that a lot. And I'm actually wondering, um, maybe in the future, we should actually ask people on our post date survey, if they were attracted to the other person's voice, cuz that's, it's actually something we've never asked folks. And it's an interesting question.

Jaime
What if you guys actually make a marriage from this,

Taly
I know, right. what if we haven't yet? At least not as far as we know, but you

Jaime
Well, you just came. This is a new-ish pod, been doing this for like 20 years.

Taly
this is still new.

Jaime
so you don't have enough data yet?

Taly
Not yet, but yet, yet is the keyword. Laura
Yes, it will happen. I am sure of it.

Jaime
It's very exciting.

Taly
We're gonna be invited to that wedding for sure. I'm gonna make sure of that okay.

Laura
or at least we'll have some merch for them

Taly
Right, right, right.

Laura
So, million dollar question Date in a Blink, what did you think? Do you think that they matched and why or why not?

Jaime
Oh, my God. Okay. So, you know, like, you know, when was this? How long ago was it?

Taly
Oh, gosh. Um, I'm trying to remember when we recorded their date. I wanna say it was,

Jaime
a round the holidays, right?

Taly
it was around the holidays, I think, cuz that was when we were recording most of the date episodes. So like December, maybe January?

Jaime So I'm gonna guess that they, they took the chance and they actually went on the date.

Taly
mm-hmm

Jaime
Um, I feel like Peter was probably nervous again. And I always tell people. Meet as soon as possible, whether you have seen their picture or not, don't spend hours on the phone, just meet as soon as possible, because what matters most is that energetic connection between two people that you can't, I call it energy, some people call it chemistry, but it's really this energy, cause we're all made up of energy. So I don't know

Taly I like the idea of, of energy more, because I think when we say chemistry, people immediately think physical chemistry, like, are there sparks? Whereas energetic connection makes it sound like there's so much, so much more and it's deeper. So I actually really like that, that kind of alternative phrase.

Jaime
and the cool thing about energy is that the re when you have a connection, it's because you see part of you in them, like you, you see attributes. Whether you are in touch with them or not like if this person's really confident, maybe you're not the most confident person you might have this energetic connection with them because it's actually in you, but you haven't realized it yet. So it's so interesting.

Taly
Laura, do you wanna make your guess?

Laura
Of course I do. I definitely thought that they, um, I definitely thought that they were going to match, uh, at a minimum, cause I feel like the conversation was so energetic. And one thing that I noticed is that. Jess was asking a lot of questions and I've actually been kind of on the receiving end of that, where someone is asking you a lot of questions, and sometimes it feels really rude to ask questions back when someone is just kind of rapid fire asking you a bunch of questions. And so I think that's why for me, I felt like the conversation was pretty natural between the two of them where one person is, I think maybe more used to asking questions. And also there's like a nervous energy, wanting to ask more questions versus being asked for those questions, because there wasn't a ton of downtime where it was like an awkward silence where, you know, she was asking questions and trying to throw spaghetti at the wall, but it did feel like there was a lot of kind of energy coming. Um, yeah, just like a lot of energy coming out. And then I feel like as Taly, you were pointing. as they got towards the middle part of the episode or, uh, the middle part of the date, they really kind of hit more of a stride where there was a lot more ebb and flow between the two of them. And so I feel like because of that, I was very optimistic that they were going to continue the conversation at a minimum. So Taly, what happened? Reveal!

Taly So they did match. Uh, and I also thought that they would match, they had a pretty, I thought, um, energetic conversation, even though in some places it felt like, you know, one person. Maybe chatted more than the other. I think it was a kind of mutually driven in that way. And, um, I, I, they, did end up matching, uh, and they went on in real life date. I don't think it developed past that first in real life date, but, um, they did manage to kinda meet and, and take it into the real world. Uh, so that was, that was the, the result of their Blink Date

Jaime
I love this concept. It's like, Love Is Blind, the show

Taly is It is.

Jaime
which I love. And I watched Ultimatum.

Taly
I know I, oh, the wait, wait, I just watched that one too. It's crazy. I did. I was like, this is the most bizarre concept, but watching it play out was just fascinating, but we could go on like a whole nother tangent for that. Um, we do have a few final questions for you rather than going down the Ultimatum rabbit hole. So as we wrap up a question we like to ask all of our experts is whether you have any final words of wisdom or advice for our audience?

Jaime
It's going to be about intuition because my

Taly
As it should be.

Jaime
Always trust yourself.

Taly
Hmm.

Jaime
Always trust yourself. Your, like I said, your answers are always within. Listen, listen to your heart, listen to your soul. Don't listen to your mind, listen to your heart, listen to your soul. Listen to the feedback that your own authentic self is giving you.

Taly
Mm-hmm

Jaime
And it's just, it's a life changing. I mean, that's the goal that, that is the answer to life. I would go so far as to say you will never have another regret again.

Taly
Well, I wanna now take that into my life with da, you know, relationships and beyond, but thank you for that advice. And I will let you know how it goes if I have zero regrets ever again. Um, but as our, our final final question, how can our audience get connected with you?

Jaime
Wonderful. So my website is very easy and straightforward. It is therelationshipexpert.com the way it sounds, et cetera, my Instagram, little, little different it's therelationshipxpert , @therelationshipxpert, but there's no E in the word expert, the relationship, the letter X P E R T. My email is Jamie J A I M E the relationship expert at Gmail. Um, I do a show called Love Talk Live on Talk Radio every week. All my information's on my website. And I just wanted everybody to know. I don't know if you were gonna, if this is your next question, but I am offering a free gift, which if you email, well, if you click on the link in the show notes, or if you email me at the email address, I just said, um, it's seven days of manifesting love, affirmations, and exercises. You'll get an email one each day for seven days. And, um, and then your, your person will just show up. I'm kidding. Not right away, but, um, gives you wonderful exercises and affirmations, um, to put this into motion, taking action!

Taly
Take that action. And we will put all of that. Um, your Instagram, your website, all of that good stuff, the free gift in our show notes. So folks, if you are listening, check it out.

Jaime
Wonderful.

[advert]

Taly
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re hosting Peter and Jess for a Blink Date!

Taly
Modern dating sucks. But it doesn’t have to! Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you’ll listen in on 10 minute voice-only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It’s time to stop collecting penpals and start, oh, I don’t know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating?! Is that even a thing anymore?! But for real, dating should be fun! We hope listening in inspires y’all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we’ll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our hand-picked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after ten minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out!

Laura
Before we jump into today’s Blink Date, here’s a quick word from our sponsors.

[sponsored content]

Taly
We're here in Date in a Blink today with Peter and Jess. I'm gonna let you two dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question: What's your favorite and least favorite chore?

Peter
Uh, Jess, I don't know if you wanna go. I, I can start. Um, okay. Um, so strangely enough, um, I actually really enjoy doing vacuuming just because like it's a loud machine. Um, I, I don't know. I feel powerful when I do it, so that's like my, my favorite chore, I'd say. Um, and then my least favorite chore is doing laundry just because like, I, I live in an apartment here in the city and I don't have an apartment in my unit. I have it in my building. um, so my elevators are super slow, so it's always a little bit of a hassle to go down to the, um, the, the laundry room and then, um, do it and then bring it back up. Um, so that's me.

Jess
Yeah, I'm the same way when it comes to laundry. That's what I was gonna pick for my least favorite chore. Um, same thing. I have laundry in the basement, but it is so much better than not having laundry at all. um, before I lived where I live now, I lived in a six floor walkup. And , that was crazy. But when it came to laundry, what I would do for that is I used this service called Folded and they would come up, take my bag of laundry, wash it, fold it, and deliver it bagged,

Peter
What no way

Jess
Yeah.

Peter
Is it expensive?

Jess
Yeah. It's in the city. Yeah, it was great. Um, the only problem was it's like, then you have to time it and it sometimes can take like a day to get back. So. as annoying as, as it is now having to do my own laundry. It is nice that I can just like, get it done and know that it'll be done in like two hours versus like putting everything together, scheduling a pickup, making sure I'm home when they drop it off.

Peter
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've, I've gotten kind of addicted to like all the, like, like, I, I, I literally, like, I was running around five minutes before this call because I got my, um, whole foods delivery. Um, so it's like, it's such a pain cuz like you have to make sure that they come on time and like I was actually worried I was gonna miss this. Um, and then my, um, I don't know if I'm always worried about tipping in the city. Like I feel like I'm an episode of Seinfeld. So I tipped my, my, um, like the porters downstairs in the, in the package room, but like one of them, I tipped a little less cuz he's, he's not as friendly. Uh, and he was the one on duty today and he was just like giving me a little attitude. So I'm always worried that like I under tipped and like, they're not gonna give my stuff and stuff. So like New York city's complicated for me. I,

Jess
Yeah. Or do you think they talk about it? Does he know that he's getting tip less?

Peter
I think so. Cuz like the other guy that I really like, I tipped him like probably like, so I tipped him a hundred bucks. The, the guy I really. And there's like 14, um, people in our building like between, um, security guard or what, sorry, doormen, um, porters in the package room and like the concierge desk and all that stuff. Um, so there's 14 people, so I wasn't gonna give everyone a hundred bucks. Um, so I had to pick and choose and like, I, I gave everyone something, at least like the minimum I gave was 25, but like, I don't know. I feel like 25 is a decent, you know, tip for somebody that you don't see all that often. Right? Like I don't, I, this, this is the stuff that stresses me out.

Jess
Yeah, that's funny.

Peter
Yeah, this is, this

Jess
speaking of Whole in Foods...

Peter
In a, in a, like a doorman building I've been in the city for, um, this is year 13. Not, not all cumulatively, but, um, year 13 or, sorry, not all consecutively, but

Jess
Okay. So 13 years in the city?

Peter
Exactly. Yeah.

Jess
Nice. Where were you when you weren't living in the city?

Peter
Uh, so I actually went to Cornell for, uh, for grad school, for, for business school. So I was there from 2018 to 2020. Um, and then I, uh, was in Pennsylvania for a year due to COVID, um, just staying with family. And then I moved back into the city in May of last year.

Jess
Oh, nice. What part of Pennsylvania are you from?

Peter
Near the Amish in Lancaster with Pennsylvania at all.

Jess
Yeah, that's like, on the Southern part? Right?

Peter
Yeah, it's uh, 45 directly, north of Baltimore.

Jess
Yeah. I went to Penn state.

Peter
No way.

Jess
I'm familiar with Pennsylvania. Yeah.

Peter
Sorry for the, uh, for the loss earlier this week for, the weekend.

Jess
I know I'm like the worst football fan. Now. I used go to all the games and always get season tickets when I went to school there, but now I'm like, I want Penn state to win, but I also don't watch all the games.

Peter
Okay. Well, so like, so I went to NYU undergrad, which is part of why I I've been in the city for 13 years, but NYU doesn't have a football team. Um, so by, you know, by default I'm a Penn state fan because that's what I grew up around. Um, and my dad went to grad school there too. So. Huge Penn state fan, but it's been, it's been a disappointing couple of years, I think since,

Jess
Did you ever go to any of the games?

Peter
What's that?

Jess
Did you ever go to any of the games?

Peter
I went to a game.

Peter
Oh gosh, this is like, maybe like, like 10 years ago with my dad when I was like really young, like this is before I was even in high school, maybe it was like 15 years ago. Um, so that was my one and only Penn state game and beaver stadium. It was great. It was really, it was really fun. I enjoyed it a lot.

Peter
Um, and I, I never, you know, even considered going to Penn state as like a school. And then when I went to the game, I was like, Hey, this might not be so bad. Um, so I seriously thought about it, but then I, I settled on NYU.

Jess
So what made you choose NYU?

Peter
Uh, I wanted to be in a city. Um, my, my, my older sister, I have one older sister. She's five years older than me. She actually went to NYU too, and she had a pretty good experience. Um, and so, you know, wanted to be in a big city, wanted to be, you know, more of like an urban environment coming from, you know, middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania. Um, so that's, that was my motivation. I mean, the one thing I will say is that I do kind of regret not having like a campus type environment. Um, you know, there would, it would've been nice to have like a football game on Saturdays or be able to like walk through a quad instead of like walking through Washington square park where all the homeless people are. Right. So. Yeah, I, I kind of like, feel like I missed out a little bit, but I, I definitely think I got like a different experience entirely. Um, just being like 20 or sorry, being 18 in New York. Um, and just getting to experience that coming from like a really, really small town.

Jess
Yeah. So what was it like living in a big city?

Peter
That's a great question. Um, I would say, like, there was definitely a little bit of like, what am I doing? Like the first freshman year was both the most fun. And like, in the beginning, kind of like the most scary, um, just because like, I wasn't familiar with, like, I hadn't been broken in, let's call it. Like, I hadn't been used to like the subways.

Peter
And like, didn't realize that you really shouldn't go on the subway at like 1:00 AM in the morning when you don't have anybody with you. Um, like, all of that stuff was kind of a little bit of a learning experience for me, but I would say like, definitely freshman year was the most fun I've I've had in the city. Now like, I feel like, you know, I'm just like an old guy here now. Um, kind of used to everything, but, um, you know, it's still fun. Still, still love the city. How about you? So like, are you, are you like, um, how long have you've been in city, straight out of Penn state or.

Jess
No. I actually grew up in San Diego. So went from San Diego to Penn state. I did a year in Richmond. And then a couple years in DC then moved up to New York.

Peter
Okay. Gotcha. So pretty recent in the city. Did, did, were you in the city before the pandemic?

Jess
I was, yes, And then during the pandemic, I came back to San Diego.

Peter
Gotcha. Gotcha. So you got to see kind of like pre pandemic, New York, and then now are, are you back in the city now?

Jess
Yeah, well, yes and no. I mean, technically I still live there, but I'm currently in San Diego. I was here for the holidays and I fly back this month.

Peter
Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, I, I, a lot of people it's like from my business school class, a lot of people hadn't lived in the city. Um, and so they're always like, oh my gosh, New York is so great, but I feel like they never experienced New York pre pandemic. So like a lot of the stuff that I used to go to. There are a lot of bars, restaurants and stuff like that that have closed. So for me, it's kind of like a weird experience coming back here after, you know, the three years that I was away, it just feels like a totally like a totally different place.

Jess
Yeah. But I do feel like over summer things started opening up again started to feel more like pre New York.

Peter
Exactly. I mean, um, so today was actually my first day back in the city after like two and a half weeks, um, I was also on vacation and actually it was in Pennsylvania. um, and it, it, it feels kind of eerie right now. I don't know if it's just people still on vacation or if it's, uh, people are just super worried about Omnicron, like yeah,

Jess
Or it being winter

Peter
That too. Um, but I was just like running errands today and like it, everything was empty. Like I got my haircut today. Um, the place was completely empty. I was the only one in the shop. And usually it's like bustling. Like I went to, um, I, I, I sprained one of my fingers, which is a whole different story. Um, so I went to the doctor today and like, uh, there was like literally no one in the doc doctor's office. So it's like, it's just like a weird experience today. I don't know.

Jess
Yeah, I know. We'll see. We'll see what it's like when I come back. If it's.

Peter
Yeah. So what, what do you like to do in the city? Like, do you have like a, a pretty big friend network from Penn state up here or...?

Jess
Um, surprisingly not so much from Penn state. Most of my friends in the city are friends that I met after college. Um, but like I love the city, you know, doing like trying new restaurants. I like working out. I know a lot of times my friends and I will like do a workout class and get brunch together after

Peter
Gotcha. Are you a member of Equinox?

Jess
no, I'm not are you?

Peter
I am. I am.

Jess
Oh the one with the pool?

Peter
I've only been to the one, um, in, in, on park avenue. Um, I haven't been to any other one, even though I'm paying for the passport. Um, so I want, that's like one of my New Years' resolutions is to try the, the different Equinox across the city. Um,

Jess
Yeah, I've been to a couple of them. I've been to the one on the one in grammar, sea, and then the one in Brookfield place, but I've always seen the pool and the one on in Hudson yards. I'm like, oh my gosh, that looks so nice.

Peter
Is that the one they called the hotel, like the Equinox hotel? Yeah.

Jess
Yeah I think so

[“Smooth” sound effect]

Taly
At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

[sponsored content]

Taly
As a longtime New Yorker, I got a kick out of Peter & Jess’s lamenting over doing laundry — it truly is a pain. It was fun to hear them talk about college sports, especially coming from very different schools with very different attitudes about sports – Peter from NYU, sans a football team, and Jess from Penn State, which is all about football. But it was a pleasant surprise to hear that Peter is actually a Penn State fan from his youth! I wonder if they’ll go to a Penn State game together someday. Tune in next week where we’ll chat with an expert about their date and reveal what happened.

Taly
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Laura
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re joined by Daniel Herrold, a dad of three and cofounder of Divorced Over Forty!

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink dates? Or when they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

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Laura
Today, on Date in a Blink, we are thrilled to have Daniel Herrold join us to talk a bit about the importance of friendship, rebuilding when a relationship ends, and so much more. Daniel is a dad of three, and co-founder of Divorce Over 40, a group that seeks to provide a community for midlife divorcees. With a focus on friendship, personal healing, and the readjustments of post married life, Divorced Over 40 has helped facilitate an inclusive environment for over 10,000 people online and in person. Along with spearheading Divorced Over 40, Daniel is also the author of a blog and an active voice on social media. So if you're looking for some insightful, funny, and totally relatable content, Daniel's Instagram has got you covered. Daniel, thank you so much for joining us today. Daniel
Excited to be with you guys. Thanks for having me.

Laura
Yeah. Divorced Over 40 really seems to emphasize the importance of community. What would you say the role of community is when it comes to personal healing and growth?

Daniel
Oh gosh, I mean, community is critical and there's really a lack of it. And, um, you know, when I got, I personally, I was divorced and probably two years following my divorce, uh, really when I kind of slowed down on, on dating. And was really kind of reflecting on how I've personally progressed after my divorce. I was like, I don't have any friends. And, um, you know, a lot of times, if you do experience a divorce or even if you experience the death of a, of a spouse, um, a lot of your friends really don't know how to deal with you, cuz they're usually in relationships, and so you're kind of left with losing a lot of your friends when you do get divorced. And the idea of fostering new friendships is, um, can be intimidating, especially when you're middle-aged you're like, well, where am I gonna go to meet friends? And so that's where kind of this idea came up is, okay, well, why don't we build a community because everybody's in the same boat, they're all yearning for connection and we can provide a connection where they can get plugged in and then everybody's gone through the same life experience that they have. So that there's just this relatability, there's this empathy, um, within the group, because we've all either been divorced, we're going through a divorce, we've lost a spouse, we've all experienced a trauma. And so, um, I think it's really, really important.

Taly
On that note, about how investing in friendships is so important and why you, you know, might want to do that, whether it's before or after you're, you know, a marriage lost spouse, um, it's sort of a really tricky thing to navigate. We know how important friendships are, but we end up kind of neglecting them when we're in relationships. What advice might you have for building and nurturing friendships while romantically involved with someone?

Daniel
It is hard. You know, we've all had those friends that once they get a boyfriend or girlfriend, we never hear from 'em again. Right. They just like fall up in the face of the earth and then we're. Well, when they break up, they'll come circling back around. Right. And it hurts your feelings, you know? Um, I mean, even, even as a divorced man, I had a, a girl, a female who was a good friend of mine and she got a boyfriend and you know, I'd never hear from her again. So, um, you know, in hindsight, in my own personal life, I wish that I had invested in more male friends during, um, my marriage, even if they were married themselves and invested more time there, I was just so focused on building my career, raising my kids and kind of, you know, living my marriage, that it was really hard to create any toward. Type of balance. What happens though, is if a worst case scenario happens like a divorce, you don't have anything left to kinda lean on other than your family. And so, um, you know, that was one thing that I think going forward, I'm a lot more intentional about, um, carving off time, keeping in touch with, uh, friends on a platonic level, obviously, and really making sure that that's important and also creating that healthy balance in a new relationship, to be able to communicate with your partner and say, this is important to me. You know, having friendships now, you still have to set new boundaries when you're in a relationship. I'm not gonna go out to the bars and stay out till two in the morning, you know, with my guy friends, that's not exactly what I mean, but there needs to be some amount of time that I can carve off where I can go independently, or jointly, invest in some of my friendships. And that's something that I've committed to doing. And I really encourage everyone that I speak to in my platforms to make sure that you're cultivating and maintaining good friendships.

Laura
Mm. One of the things that you're talking about is how you can maintain those friendships when you're in a relationship. But I'm, I'm curious to know a little bit more about the dating side itself. So I'm curious, what was it like getting back into dating after years of marriage? And then what advice might you have for someone who's in a similar situation based on what you learned from your own experience and from the people in your community?

Daniel
Well, I can throw a couple of, uh, ex expletive words here. Uh, let me just

Laura
I think we all can. Yeah.

Daniel
let me just say that it was a circus because you know, and now that I, I have a platform where I speak about dating, and I've looked back at my own experiences, as well as the others, the people that I engage with and what they're experiencing, I can size it up pretty well. You know, the fact of the matter is, is if you've been in a relationship for 10, 15, 20, 30 years, and that relationship ends, and you jump back into dating, it's not like getting back up on a pair of skis, that you, you know, where you skied when you were in high school and you haven't skied in 30 years or getting back on a bike. Um, it is a learned, um, skill set to learn how to date, uh, with intentionality and also learn how to develop discernment in terms of figuring out who's real and who isn't and what we encounter, in dating today, particularly with online dating, but just in general is there's this large pool of daters who are still very much emotionally unhealthy from their past trauma, their past breakup, their past divorce, their past loss of a spouse. And you go through these emotions being single, where you're you get lonely, you're yearning for affection and connection. And. People have a tendency to dive into dating when they haven't healed. And so you've got all of this toxicity, that's in the dating pool of people that are just unhealthy. Shouldn't be dating at all. And the healthy ones that are in there are encountering them, you know? And so we're dealing with a lot of unhealthy people. And a lot of times we don't know that we can't see those behaviors because we haven't learned how to discern people, how to vet, how to pick, how to qualify, whatever verb you use. And so it becomes a real challenge. And, you know, I always tell people, my point of advice is, you know, before you dive into dating, number one is you gotta heal. You gotta feel, you gotta completely heal from your past trauma. But number two is you really need to study. You really need to do a little bit of pre-work, um, and invest the time in learning how dating's changed, what's out there and how to navigate it.

Taly
So some of what you talked about just now and before was how we need to heal sometimes after we get out of these long relationships, um, you know, and that's, that's fairly common. It's not unusual to feel that you need to kind of fill this, the empty space with someone new as soon as you can, after a long term relationship ends. And so it's really easy. To, um, rush into something without giving ourselves the proper time and process to heal. Uh, and while there's no one size fits all approach to this, we're, I'm wondering what advice you might have when it comes to figuring out what, whether you're really ready to start heal, um, sorry, dating again, whether you're ready to start dating again.

Daniel
You're right. And the, and the fact of the matter, in a matter of five minutes, I can be on a dating app and communicating with people. So the ease of jumping into dating, particularly if you're in that state, it makes it really easy. And that's why you have people that do it. Um, you know, I always tell people, you know, I get the question a lot: when are you ready? When am I, when should I be ready? And I tell people, when you feel excited and optimistic about your future, you feel like a complete human being. And you recognize that a plus one in your life is not, does not complete you, it's merely icing on the cake. And when you feel really confident in yourself and where you're heading, the direction that you're heading, then you're ready to date because then you're not gonna be so needy. You're not gonna lean on people. You're not gonna exhibit all these behaviors, um, that aren't healthy. When you dive into new encounters now, how do you get there? Oh man. There's like, we can talk for hours on ways that you can invest in yourself, um, to heal. There's lots of ways in terms of self care that you can invest in yourselves, but, you know, I'm a huge advocate of utilizing therapy. You know, there's just so many good experts that are in this field to help people work through attachment styles, trauma, you know, narcissism, abuse. I mean, you name it, across the spectrum, there are people that can help you and it's the best investment you can make in terms of really, um, You know, facilitating that healing. And if you don't do it, if you don't do the self-care, you don't focus on or utilize maybe a therapist, all it's gonna do is prolong it. It's gonna prolong that, you know, that that wound is gonna S scab over and it's gonna get, it's gonna be really slow to heal it. And a lot of times that scab will fall off, cuz you're gonna get triggered or you'll get emotional. And it just makes that process that much longer. So you've gotta do the self care. Obviously therapy is one avenue, um, which could help accelerate the healing.

Laura
So building off of that, whether it's a marriage or a long term relationship, when you share so much of your life with someone, it can reshape parts of who you are. So when a relationship ends, it's really easy to feel lost, that something was so foundational, that that's something that was so foundational in your life is no longer there. What advice do you have for someone who's trying to find themselves again, after a relationship ends?

Daniel
It is …it's true. I mean, a lot of times, like for me, I was in a 22 year marriage plus four years of dating beforehand. And so I didn't know anything other than being in a relationship. And I think a lot of people will try to jump right into the next one because that's all they're accustomed to. And there has to be, you know, I feel like there's gotta be this season, particularly after you're healing, where you go through this self discovery. And if you miss that opportunity, When you're single, you know, you've healed and there's like this little rare window of opportunity where you can, you have full autonomy, you can do whatever you want. You can choose to do whatever activity you wanna participate in. Um, everything, all the decisions that you make are yours. They're not jointly made with another partner. It's kind of a cool feeling. And frankly, a lot of people in the divorce community, in our community that have healed, um, and they're enjoying this portion of their life so much, they're like, is it weird for me that I don't want to get in a relationship? And I'm like, no, embrace the season. And so, um, I call it a self discovery process. It's like dusting off all the old passions, all the old hobbies that you kind of shelved as a sacrifice to your relationship, the things that you wanted to do, whether it's travel, or a particular hobby, maybe you wanted to jumpstart a new career, start a small business, there's this just unique opportunity where you can really kind of rediscover yourself. It's really exciting. And, and I, you know, I call it, um, creating the newer version, kind of the version 2.0 of yourself. And frankly, those type of people when they start dating are so much more attractive, and the people that haven't done, the re discovery, and they're just hopping from one relationship to the next because that's all they know.

Taly
So I'm actually curious, talking about self discovery and our sense of self, what are some steps you can take to maintain your self sense of self, wow. I'm really struggling with words today. Um, ways that you can maintain your sense of self when you're in a relationship?

Daniel
Well, that's a great question. It's all about two things: boundaries and communication. And you know, there could be a lot of things, you know, the fact that you wanna maintain friendships, the fact that you have certain activities that you like to do that maybe your partner doesn't like to do. Um, like travel, maybe you like to travel. Um, you know, I traveled solo this past in last year and I was in a relationship and I had a lot of people ask me, well, something, something must be wrong with them. Why is he traveling by himself? And I wrote a blog post on, Hey, it's okay to travel solo when you're in a relationship. So, you know, it's, you know, you don't wanna, in terms of the healthy activities that you're doing as a human being, as a single person, you don't wanna give those up just because you're in a relationship if they're healthy. Um, and so I think a lot of it is setting expectations as you dive early, real early in that relationship, when you decide, okay, we're committed to each other. Um, we're exclusive, whatever you might call it, um, to sit down and talk about some of these things, you know, I like these are the things that I want to continue doing in my life. Some of them, I may want you to join me, join me with some of 'em, I like doing myself. Um, I think another important piece is, um, The amount of time that you spend just by yourself, you know, you don't always have to be joined to the hip with your partner. And I think a lot of people in the divorce, uh, arena, when they come out of relationship, they really appreciate that. And they want to sell, set, you know, a boundary to where, Hey, there's times I just like being by myself. Um, you know, we don't have to watch Netflix and chill every night, you know? Um, there might be times that I'm gonna watch TV or go do, go to a coffee shop or do whatever by myself. And I think the more you're able to communicate that and certainly listen, cuz the intent isn't, um, negative. It's not, it's not like I want to get away from you. I'm trying to pull away. It's really like, these are things that keep me happy. Keep me healthy. And I wanna maintain 'em and, you know, you need to respect your partners boundaries as well. If they have things that they'd like to do or not like to do, then obviously you need to, it's a two way street. So it's all about just communicating, uh, your boundaries, your desires, your hopes, your dreams, right outta the gate, you know, don't wait for that to happen for a problem to happen. Set it up front.

Taly
And just to kind of add something explicit to something I think you're, you're saying implicitly, don't let other people's, um, You know, expectations or understanding of your relationship to find how you wanna navigate it. You know, hearing you talk about travel. I have the same thing. My parents are always like, wait, you're going without your partner to XYZ place? What about him? How, what is he gonna do? And I'm like, I don't know. He's gonna stay at home and do his own thing and it's gonna be fine. We're adults. And so I think it's really easy to get caught up in what other people, what you think other people, you know, understand a relationship to mean and what that means for how you need to be in your relationship. And so I think it's really valuable to kind of do what works for you and your partner.

Daniel
Hundred percent agree. Um, we, we already have a hard enough time as a sing as singles, uh, where we're getting this cultural pressure, particularly in the United States, as well as friends and family. Um, in terms of, you know, why, why don't, why aren't you dating? You know, why aren't you, why aren't you with someone? And so we're already dealing with that. And then we create this own internalized pressure that something must be wrong with us, cuz we're hearing it from everybody else. But even when you're in a relationship, you know, we don't need, um, outside influences to tell us, you know, what we know is healthy to be unhealthy or wrong. Now I'm all about a friend coming to me and saying, I think this behavior that your partner's exhibiting, or you, may be unhealthy, but if, if we know it's to be healthy, it's healthy and we're communicating and there's, you know, then stay outta my business. I'm just gonna do the things, you know, we're gonna do the things that we wanna do. Um, so I do think that that's important not to listen to all the outside influence.

Laura
I think this is a really great tee-up to the next question, which is, how do you think dating changes as we get older?

Daniel
question. Um, I think there's a number of things. I think that we like our own time, so there's definitely more of a propensity for people to say. I like my own space. Um, I think also there tends to be a lot more intentionality, uh, with people as they age, because they're like, okay, I'm tired of the, of the riff raff that's out there. I'm, you know, I'm not casually dating anymore. Or, um, I'm tired of dealing with, you know, these type of daters, and so, you know, there, although I would argue, I've read a lot of articles that suggest the younger generations are now, um, being more, more intentional about, you know, trying to get to the bottom of whether or not there's a fit with people. So there's, there's, there tends to be maybe a little bit more or less tolerance and just openly dating a lot of people and more about, intentionality asking questions right out of the gate to try to figure out if there's alignment and there's a fit. Um, which I think's good. I think there's always a season coming out of a relationship to, to explore, uh, in your dating, which means casual dating, cuz you kind of wanna reconfigure what you want and what you don't want. But once you've kind of figured that out, then you're like, okay, enough of this let's let's, let's get serious. Let's be intentional. Let's have adult-like conversations, you know, early so that I can figure out if I'm wasting my time or not. So I think people are more protective of their time, that's kind of the, a good way of sum it up. Um, and I do think people, uh, like their own time too. They like that balance.

Taly
That is actually a great segue to our next question too. Um, one of the things that Jason and Jennifer talk about is time. Um, and you know, we get busier as we get older and our lives are fuller. Um, and on their, the date, they talk about time as it applies to vacations. Um, but time is important. In general, like you were talking about when it comes to dating. So what advice do you have about setting time aside for others while also protecting your own?

Daniel
Well, um, again, I, I think when you're entering into a relationship, um, or even if you start dating someone because you know, I'd argue dating is not a relationship until it's defined, but let's say you've started dating someone regularly. Um, it is important to, to set boundaries in terms of your own personal space, you know, the amount of time that you like, you know, how often is your, are you gonna go out on dates? Um, how often are you gonna see each other? How often do you communicate? You know, these things are important because if you don't talk about 'em, then one side or the other expectations are not gonna get met and it's gonna create problems. So it really is important to talk about communication styles and the frequency in which you, you go out on dates or, or see each other. And that carries into a relationship too, in terms of those type of boundaries, uh, we talked about that a little bit about that earlier about just sitting down and saying, um, you know, I, I like my alone time and this, and I like to have have it, and this is what it means to me. Um, and, and vice versa. And, you know, just as an example, Uh, I've been dating for, uh, 19 months now. And we're about to move in. So one of the conversations that we had before we moved in, we sat down over dinner and said, okay, let's talk about expectations. And it wasn't this like serious, I mean, we were, it was a little bit more casual, but we talked about, you know, what if I want to get, if I get up in the morning and I'm like, Hey, I'm going to the coffee. I just wanna get away? Um, or I wanna do this or that, you know, by myself? You know, I wanna make sure that you're not reading into it because we're communicating what our, what we'd like to do from a healthy standpoint. And it was such a good conversation to talk about that so that, you know, nothing's left to be assumed when they're, I always say in my line of business, if you can eliminate the surprises in life or in a relationship, then it's gonna be pretty smooth sailing. And the best way to eliminate, uh, surprises is to communicate. If you can communicate your desires, your goals, and you can listen as well. Um, it's gonna set it, it's gonna be a lot smoother versus just assuming or overthinking because you're not communicating.

Laura
That's, that's great. Thank you for sharing that. So when it, when it comes to a voice only date, how you engage in conversation is pretty crucial when it comes to making a lasting and positive impression, do you think Jason and Jennifer were able to strike a balance between sharing and listening? And what advice do you have for our audience when it comes to finding balance between talking and listening on a date?

Daniel
You know, I thought, uh, it, that was, that was an interesting banter back and forth. Um, I thought, uh, that what I did think that was very positive was they definitely, uh, asked good questions and they listened. As a matter of fact, um, when I listened over it, I don't think that they, uh, interrupted each other once. Which that's, that's rare in a conversation, particularly when it's like a fir early, because you're nervous. And so you want to, you know, lead another story with your story, and they did a really good job listening. Um, and I think that that was, uh, kudos to both of them. Um, I do think that, and they both asked really good questions. You know, they were talking about traveling, they talked about work, you know, work, uh, life balance. You know, there were some pretty good questions. They talked a little bit about their careers. Um, I could tell, um, that it was a little bit awkward at first, which I think any first dates like that, whether it's on in person or on the phone, but both of them really started to warm up to each other, I think as, as the, um, as the conversation ensued.

Taly
So that, that leads to the million dollar question, Daniel, do you think they matched?

Daniel
You want the honest truth?

Taly
Yeah.

Daniel
I don't, I don't. I felt, and again, I dunno, both of them, I felt like Jason was nervous. His voice was a little shaky. Um, and he was a little bit too serious. There wasn't, and then I felt, I sensed just by her, the inflection of her tone that she didn't seem interested. It seemed a little flatlined and I think a lot of, maybe, uh, the reason why both of them were, were like that is because even though they were asking good questions, it wasn't light and fun. There wasn't a whole lot of banter. If you know what I mean, or flirting or, you know, there was a little bit of laughter. But it just was ma- and I don't know if this was the first call or second, but it just seemed a little bit too serious right out of the gate.

Taly
I didn't think that they would match either. I thought it was a very cordial conversation, but I didn't feel the chemistry. Um, and Laura, uh, as the host, Laura, do you wanna tell us what happened?

Laura
You are both correct. It was not a match in the end. Both did say that they enjoyed the experience though. So

Taly
Yay, for that at

Daniel
know, it's, it's a, but it's a great, I love it because, um, It's just so much, you, you can read so much into it, right? Like if that conversation ensued over text,

Taly
Mm. Right.

Daniel
I probably couldn't read what I just described or any of us. Right. You can't, you can't tell inflection, you can't tell when somebody's really laughing or not. And I think the, you know, that's, what I love about your app is. You know, if you're really listening, you can tell if someone's really curious if they're really engaged. Um, if there's, you know, if they're flirty, I mean, you can, you can hear all those things in people's voices and it, it just didn't sound like it was there.

Laura
Yeah, I really appreciate the juxtaposition of what we were able to hear. Eight versus imagining the transcription version, because I feel if someone were to just read through the transcription, you miss a lot of the tone in the context, and it might sound like a really, uh, positive not, or not that it wasn't positive, but it might sound like, oh yeah, they were definitely gonna match. But when you hear the way that they're talking to each other, yeah. It's, it's a very cordial conversation. Not, not filled with chemistry. So as,

Daniel
That's why people like audiobooks, right?

Laura
yeah, love audiobooks.

Daniel
They wanna hear the emphasis and, and, you know, Clubhouse is another app, which I know you guys are familiar with, um, was fairly revolutionary in social media to create an audible experience where you can, you can hear other people articulate what their thinking, what their opinions are, their views, and you can size people up based on how they speak and no different from what, how your app's designed, where you can, you can size up intelligence, you can size up, uh, whether or not they even wanna be on the call, you know, on the chat or the date. Um, whether they're curious, whether they're interested in you or they doing all the talking. And so, um, it's a genius idea.

Laura
Thank you so much. We appreciate that. As we wrap up a question, we love to ask all our experts. Do you have any quick words of wisdom for our advice or? Wow. I'm butchered that question.

Taly
We're both messing up.

Laura
yeah. As we wrap up a question, we love to ask all of our experts. Do you have any quick words of wisdom or advice for our audience?

Daniel
Well, I would say yes, first of all, dating is a marathon, it's not a sprint. So you just need to take your time, do the pre-work and you know, the more that you're able to learn the art of dating, um, and really prepare yourself the better experiences that you're gonna have. And realize that you're playing the long game here. It's if you sprint out outta the gate in a marathon, you're not gonna last past mile one or two. So it's about slow and steady. Let relationships cultivate naturally over time, not in one, 10 hour conversation. It's like a crockpot, let things cook and stew over time and you'll have a lot better experiences and always have a good attitude. You know, if you don't have a good attitude, you probably shouldn't be dating. So keep maintaining that positive attitude and you'll have great experiences.

Laura
Love that, love that for the audience. Thank you so much for that advice. And for joining us today as our final final question, how can our audience get connected with you?

Daniel
Uh, prob you know, uh, two places is where I'm really, I play a lot in, uh, first is on Instagram. And, um, I you'll probably put my username in there, but it's just Dan, @DanielHerrold, my full name. And then I have the exact same username on TikTok. And so TikTok, I use as a platform to kind of, laugh about dating and relationships. So it's a lot of kinda funny stuff that everybody can, can empathize with. And then Instagram is a little bit more serious content where I provide, you know, useful tips and advice on how to navigate dating, whether it's after a divorce or just dating in general.

Laura
Thank you so much. Well, Daniel, thank you so much for joining us today.

Taly
Thank you

Daniel
My pleasure. Thank you guys.

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Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Laura
Hello and welcome to today's episode of Date in a Blink, where we're hosting Jennifer and Jason for a Blink Date.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice on the speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging, our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's Blink Date, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

[Ad]

Laura
Today's date prompt comes from Modest Notes, a brand creating products for adults to improve their communication skills for the purpose of developing more meaningful intimate relationships. Visit www.modestnotes.com to check out their decks!

Laura
We're here on Date in a Blink today with Jennifer and Jason. I'm going to let you two dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question: do you prefer multiple mini vacations throughout the year or one big vacation every year?

Jason
Jennifer, you want to go first?

Jennifer
Oh, boy. Um, well, I guess it depends on how you define mini vacations, like, are you talking a few days or like a week? Because I think like, I would consider a week. I like to do a week at a time. I'm lucky that I get about three weeks at work. So I like to do one every few months, just to kind of get away from a stressful job from the city and just go to the beach or go somewhere new. What about yourself, Jason?

Jason
Um, I'm pretty much the same way. I like a planned one big one at least once a year. I don't really have time to plan little mini ones. Little mini ones can be expensive in the long run. I like to really enjoy a well planned out but spontaneous, once a year vacation, it could be a week could be two weeks. It doesn't matter as long as you enjoy every minute of it. And you're and you're having fun. So where what kind of work do you do?

Jennifer
I work in Finance.

Jason
Oh, interesting.

Jennifer
Yeah. So it's a little stressful. So it's, vacations great because I turn off all my notifications. And really just unplug for however long I'm away. Where was the last big vacation that you did?

Jason
I live in Canada. I live in Newfoundland, Canada. So last vacation. I did. I've been Ottawa a few times, Ottawa, Canada. But the last vacation I did was in the United States was in Seattle, the Seattle area. I loved it.

Jennifer
I've been wanting to Seattle

Jason
You need a rain jacket in Seattle.

Jennifer
Yeah. It's supposed to be gorgeous over there. Are you into like the nature and the hiking? Did you do...

Jason
A little bit. I'm not a huge hiker. I'm not a huge camper. I'm very much a city city person.

Jennifer
Alright, same here. Yeah. But I mean, do you enjoy going to the beaches, but I like to go to like the less crowded beaches and just hang out there. I'm fine just sitting there all day. Just listening to the water and laying in the sand.

Jason
If we had beaches, I'd probably really enjoy them. Our beaches are really rocky here in Newfoundland, and they're really cold. And I'm not making where I live sound very appealing, am I? It is really, really nice here, trust me.

Jennifer
Sure. are you originally from Newfoundland or?

Jason
I've born and grew up here on my life. So. Okay. And where are you?

Jennifer
I'm in New York City.

Jason
Okay. Wow. So I could see where the stress factor does come in and and where you would need to get away, for sure.

Jennifer
Yeah. It's a little —

Jason
Yeah. But yeah, I love New York, but it can be very. Yeah, the need to get away, I fully understand.

Jennifer
Yeah, it's a bit intense. But I, it's still the greatest city in the world. Even though I complain about how stressful it is. And all the little things about it. It's, this is home. I moved here. Oh, my gosh, almost 10 years ago, at this point. And I'll go away like I was in Spain last month, and after a week, I was like, Okay, I just kind of want to go home now. Like, Spain is nice, but I miss New York. And when you fly back in to the city and you get to see all the lights. It's just to me, it never gets old. It's still such a magical place.

Jason
I hear Yeah. This must be a perfect time of year for a New Yorker.

Jennifer
Yes. Yes, I mean, I love Christmas time. But I usually don't make it up to Midtown where all the decorations where everything's like lit up and whatnot, just because it's very touristy, but actually, it may not be a bad time to go next week on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, and see all of that. Because of COVID and everything like we're working from home, and my office is actually right near in Midtown. So my plan was oh, I'll just go after work one day, see, like, hit all the lights, see everything. And COVID put a little kink in that, but there's nothing that we can't fix next week. Next weekend, I guess

Jason
You're so lucky! Do you have Instagram? I got to see these. I'm just, I'm just kidding. Man, I'm sure that that's that. That's some some something to take in for sure. Yeah.

Jennifer
When was the last time you were in... Do you come to New York often? Or?

Jason
No, I've only been once. I'm in journalism. I'm a journalist. I'm a reporter. And sometimes they send me to various places, naturally, but I mean, I only see like airports, hotels, and not as much as a city as I'd like to.

Jennifer
What kind of journalism, uh, do you mainly focus on?

Jason
I mainly focus on entertainment, journalism. I interview filmmakers, actors, actresses, writers, even Composers, Authors, musicians. I also worked for a newspaper. And sometimes my assignment editor would just say, do, do this, do that. And because I'm a curious person, because I love meeting new people. I never really turn anything down. So even if it's out of my wheelhouse, I will definitely usually always say yes to a story.

Jennifer
That's so cool. How'd you get into like journalism and entertainment journalism?

Jason
Uh, entertainment's always been something I've always always been interested in. I did tons of filmmaking workshops, but it's not a huge industry here in Atlanta, Canada. So journalism seemed more, I can still, where, uh, I could still work in that field, in some capacity. Being around people who create TVs and and film and our music scene is just, boom, it's huge. And come for way where we, you know, we're the home of comfortable ways. Our music is a big part of our culture. So I figured journalism is the is the avenue where I can do my own thing, have my own voice, but at the same time be around these people that I find so inspirational, and creative, and just just blast to be around.

Jennifer
So have you do you never like I guess like you're doing that kind of journalism, like LA would be a great place? Like, is that just something that you don't really want to do? Or has that ever crossed your mind?

Jason
Um, I'm only in this a few years. Actually, this is my fifth year, but it is something I definitely would be interested in. I'm making contacts people from like, Disney and Netflix have reached out to me to interview their clients, which is always a boost. It doesn't make me feel bad when when that happens. So someone likes my stuff.

Jennifer
Awesome!

Jason
This is weird, isn't it? Doing something like this?

Jennifer
It is, but it's something unique. You know, it's, I found dating to be really hard, especially here in the city with an especially like, during COVID. So I was like, why not try something different? See how it goes? I mean, I'm not one. Not wanting to turn down an adventure, that's for sure.

Jason
Yeah, I like that. I like that answer. I'm the same way I never turned down like an opportunity to do something try something meet someone. Initially, I was interested in this story, but then I was like, okay, you know, maybe I'll meet someone and get to know someone and then will be just like, way awesome. So yeah,

Jennifer
yeah.

Jason
Yeah, it's weird, but it's it's how it is these days. And dating is so hard. Dating. Even dating. Oh. I just recently learned that the hard way.

Jennifer
Yeah. It's not fun.

Jason
Doesn't matter where you're, too. You think it'd be easier in probably more crowded places or less crowded places? It's not.

Jennifer
So what do you what do you do for fun? Like, I guess your top three activities that you like to do?

Jason
Well, I read, I read I listen to music. I jog i Run i walk I bike. I like keeping active because we you're sitting at your computer a lot writing stories. You're doing. Yeah, you can really like your your body feels it. So you got to keep active. How about you?

Jennifer
Um, so I've got two dogs, two Shepherd Husky mixes so they keep me quite active, quite busy. And most of my like life revolves around them. I also scuba dive. So that's kind of become a big part of my life. So usually one of the vacations that I do will be like a diving trip.

Laura
At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

[ad]

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re joined by Jillian RIchardson – a coach, connection expert, and author of best-selling book Un-Lonely Planet!

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink dates? Or when they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

[advert]

Taly
Today on Date in a Blink we’re joined by Jillian Richardson – a coach, connection expert, and author of best-selling book Un-Lonely Planet. Through workshops, interviews, and public speaking events, Jillian helps people develop skills that enable a deeper connection with themselves and others. She has presented at various global conferences, been featured as a source for publications such as the Wall Street Journal, the Guardian, and NBC, and is a certified coach through Coach Training Alliance. In addition to this, Jillian successfully launched The Joy List, a weekly newsletter with over 6,500 subscribers that strives to reduce loneliness in New York City through community-centered events. On her website, Jillian reminds us that “connection is our birthright, and it starts from within.” We couldn’t agree more, and are so excited to dig into it today.

Taly
Hi, Jillian. We are thrilled to host you today and learn more about your background as a coach connection expert and bestselling author.

And of course, to chat about Quinn and Brianna's date. It's such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Jillian
Thank you so much for having me. I love having my Esther Perl moment right now.

Taly
Yes, you're gonna be the future Esther Perel, I know it. So diving in, on your website, you write that connection is our birthright and it starts from within, can you explain a bit about what that means and why it's such an important thing to remember?

Jillian
Yeah. So I really feel like our natural way of being in the world is feeling connected to ourselves, to our bodies, to our soul, feeling connected to other people, feeling connected, to love. And then all of these things. Kind of make us unlearn those natural lessons. We feel disconnected from our bodies because of diet culture.

Jillian
We believe that we're not enough. We have all these fears that people won't accept us or love us. And all these things kind of become barriers to get in the way of what naturally comes to us, which is love and connection. And I was. Speaking at a hotel recently, and a woman came up to me and she was like, you know, I think all of your work is really around the art of unlearning all of these harmful lessons that were taught.

Jillian
And I really feel like that's a great way to kind of sum it up. Taly
I think you're totally right. It's crazy how many things we learn just by existing in the world that really don't serve us. And the process of erasing those and kind of retraining ourselves is, is, a journey. And it has to be like a very conscious one. Yeah.

Laura
There's a statistic that you often bring up when you're talking about loneliness and I'm, I'm trying to thread the connection here between there's this, this concept of connection and it's starting from within, but then also the sense of loneliness. And so the stat that you bring up is 75% of adults feel unsatisfied with their friendships. And I'm curious, what do you think is at the root of this dissatisfaction?

Jillian
Well, I think one is that people don't take the time to learn the skills to feel really connected in their relationships. I think a lot of people are on autopilot because it's not something we're culturally taught that we should learn. Like kind of when it comes to friendship, especially friendship, we're, we're talking like, oh, you, you should just know how to do that.

Jillian
If you spend any time learning about these skills, you're kind of weird. Or there's something socially wrong with you? When in reality, we need to learn friendship skills, just like we need to learn romantic skills.

Taly
It's true. Um, and I think this actually leads really well into the next question. So many people feel a desire for that strong sense of connection and it gets so discouraging when we're looking for it, because we might, you know, briefly connect with a friend of a friend or go on a couple of dates with a person and find that the connection fizzles out.

Taly
So what advice would you have for someone pursuing and maintaining a connection and how can we learn how to make those deep connections?

Jillian
Man. It's so hard. I'm literally in a moment of that right now, I can, I can be more on the anxious attachment side of things. And the early stages of relationships are always so difficult, cuz there's so much unknown. There's so much like, oh, am I weird if I reach out to you? Do I communicate too much? What if I never hear from them again?

Jillian
You haven't figured out like your rhythm of communication yet. and just to be kind with yourself that like it's so human to feel vulnerable, especially when you're just starting to get to know a friend or a romantic partner and as unpleasant and difficult as it sounds to try and sit with that part of you, that feels really scared cuz there's, it's really like this young part of ourselves.

Jillian
Ooh. I just activated my Siri. Uh

Taly
Siri wants to get in on the action.

Laura
Yeah. Yeah.

Jillian
like, oh yeah, let me, let me help with that. Um, so funny, there's this young part of ourselves that it's like the little kindergartener. That's afraid that kids don't wanna sit with her at lunch and

Laura
Yeah.

Jillian
just like want someone to play with and feels left out. If the other kids don't play with her. Like we all have that part of ourselves. And it, I think in those kind of activated moments of not totally knowing where you stand with someone, we can really benefit from doing that. And I also say that literally to remind myself.

Taly
Yeah. I just saw a TikTok where a woman was saying that she realized, she thinks she's a lot closer to people who, than other people think they are to her. So she'll think, you know, we spent 12 hours together working on this set. I think we're best friends now. And then she realizes when she sees them the next time, they're kinda like, Hey, that. She her perception of their connection was much different from their perception of the connection. And it's just

Taly
interesting, cuz it, like you said, like, you know, it's just, you know, that little girl being like, do they wanna hang out with me? Do they think I'm cool? Do they wanna sit with me? Why not? If not, and it, we can take ourselves on these really, you know, sad journey sometimes. Um, as we look for connection. Um, so yeah, Laura, were you gonna say something? I, I heard you make a, a small noise.

Laura
Yeah, I actually was gonna echo a lot, a lot of what you said as well. And one thing that this is having me think about is I think online connection can really get a bad rap for all of the negatives that it causes in the world. But I just wanted to share something from my own experience. I like I grew up in a small town.

Laura
Um, I. Never really felt like I fit in. Uh, and so it's like when you're talking about, you know, being the little girl, who's like, oh, nobody wants to play with me. When you're five years old, it's a really isolating experience. And it really stinks. And it, it is something that a lot of us will carry with us if we were that child that was kind of that loner or the person who felt a little bit left out for whatever reason. Um, and so I just appreciate so much the internet and being able to find these online spaces that have in many cases formed into real life, real beautiful friendships around shared mutual interests that I otherwise never would've been able to create. And so I just, I, uh, I think

Taly
Like me,

Laura
yes, exactly. Like you

Taly
We met on Instagram.

Laura
Yeah. And so I, I think something that I want to, as a reminder for myself and a reminder for our listeners as well is. Online dating gets a bad rap for very valid reasons. Meeting people online gets an interesting rap for a variety of reasons, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with recognizing that there are billions of people on this planet.

Laura
And there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people who would absolutely kill to be your friend to be your lover, to be your partner. And as much as it's not a numbers game, in the sense of, you know, dealing with the paradox of choice and endlessly swiping on, on, you know, these really deeply personal connections, it is, sometimes it is as simple as, you know what it's okay that we're not passing the vibe check with each other. I'm gonna do what I can up until a point. And then once we kind of hit a tipping point, or we go over where I'm comfortable with my own thresholds, you know, then I'll, I'll continue on this journey to find people that it's not... it's work, but it's not hard work and it's not work that we're both unwilling to do, whether it's a friendship or a romantic relationship. Um, and so anyway, this is just all these, like, emotions are coming up for me of how truly grateful I am to live in, in a society that is this global community and, and to yeah.

Laura
Find these spaces where people love the weird quirks about you and they view the things that are a little bit weird as quirky, fun, endearing, as opposed to weird and off putting.

Jillian
That, that's exactly a point that I try and make in interviews because I think, when folks ask me about loneliness and about technology specifically, they're often waiting for me to be like technology is ruining our connections and our relationships. And I find that the people who often pose that question come from a lot of pretty socially normative circles.

Jillian
Like maybe like they're straight, their like their body is totally healthy. They don't have any mental health issues. Like, I like they're straight if I, I don't know if I just said that or not, but they're like, yeah. All of the ways that I express myself, I'm fine just finding those people in the world because that's safe for me.

Jillian
And yet there's all of these communities, like maybe. You're home bound and you're ill and you can't leave your house to meet people. Maybe you're gay in a state where you don't feel safe expressing that openly. Maybe you have a mental health issue that your family doesn't understand. Like there's all these reasons why having online community is really powerful and really beautiful.

Jillian
And yeah, it just bugs me when people diminish them so much.

Laura
Yeah. It's like, oh, that's the place where all the weird people go to connect and it's like, well, yeah, but you have no idea how validating it is to, to feel like if you've never felt that loneliness, if you've never felt like there's not a space for you physically in what's what you see around you. It is so powerful and moving to find a community of people that are right there alongside with you. Um, and actually, as you're, as you're sharing this, I just, I feel very seen by what you're saying.

Laura
And it's like very moving for me and very validating. So I really like, I cannot thank you enough for, you know, kind of beating that drum when, when people essentially say, oh, technology is destroying our lives and to say like, it can, it can, it doesn't have to,

Laura
um,

Jillian
it's both sides of

Jillian
the coin. Like yesterday I was avoiding a feeling and just like, Was on my phone way more than was actually good for my mental health. And then today I was like, man, what was going on yesterday? Like I was like, oh, I was avoiding a feeling. That's what was happening.

Laura
Yeah. Yeah.

Taly
So we talked about this a tiny bit, and then we kind of moved into the, you know, online community, um, and you know, the double edged sword nature of it.

Taly
But if we're thinking about that little girl on the playground, or, you know, even us in our, our adult lives and going out on dates and having temporary connections, I'm curious if you have any advice for how we can think about those temporary fleeting connections that are, you know, are really strong and then they fizzle out and how we can process that process, that in a healthy way.

Jillian
Yeah. I recently, am laughing to myself cuz I'm forgetting where I read this. It might have been on in a book on internal family systems. It might have been a TikTok. The, the variety of depth of where I got this piece of info from is, is wide. But is this idea of... What would someone who had a secure attachment style do in this moment?

Jillian
Cause like, uh, it just makes me laugh cuz it's so simple. But I find the people who are obsessed with relationships, myself included are usually the ones who are more anxiously attached. Like there's not a lot of dating advice out there for people who are avoidantly attached, cuz they just don't care to grow that skillset.

Jillian
Uh, and then folks who are securely attached, it comes so naturally to them that there's not as much deep interest in like relational work. And so for me, what's really helpful is calling to mind a friend who like had the blessing of a very secure family and has a very secure attachment style. And what she would say if like, you know, you go on two dates and

Jillian
you never hear from them again. And you're bummed cuz you think you had a great connection... like what would she say? And she'd probably just be like, well, clearly they're not as interested in me as I would want a partner to be. So why would I keep going on dates with them?

Taly Mm-hmm

Jillian
I'm like, wow, that's such a healthy perspective that doesn't involve me telling myself that I'm like not a good person.

Laura
Oh, I think that's so incredibly relatable. And I think that really feeds into, I think, such a natural, I don't know how we, as humans have developed this fear of rejection.

Laura
Um, So many things make sense to me, you know, tapping into fight or flight when people are entering, uh, their reptile brain, all those things make sense to me from an evolutionary perspective and standpoint, but like the fear of rejection, I'm trying to figure out why this is such a, something that is so deeply powerful. And so I really feel like that that fear, that hesitancy plays into people's. Desire to even go and seek out connection in community, because it's so hard to shake those voices. Uh, and you know, when you hear those, that internal talk track saying, what if they don't like me? What if I don't belong? So I'm curious, what advice do you have for learning to ignore those voices and move past that fear?

Jillian
Yeah, I think one is to like, get curious about those voices and kind of sense check what it is that they're saying. Cause I find, and I've really seen this in my coaching clients, the better we are at handling rejection, like the more we know we have the skills and the tool set to work through it without falling into this place of like super flagellating ourselves,

Jillian
the more likely we are to put ourselves out there cuz we know like, yeah, the more I put myself out there, the more likely I am to get rejected, and the more likely I am to get what I want, and I know I can handle it when inevitably someone isn't interested in me. Uh, and so some things that are helpful are one to just think about like, wh what are the reasons why you haven't been interested in someone in the past?

Jillian
Like a lot of the time it's not anything egregious, like it's not. Something huge. It's just like, you know, they felt more like a friend or just, you know, we went on three dates and that romantic energy just wasn't there. Like a lot of the time, it's just kind of this chemical thing that we have no control over.

Jillian
And then it's really just in our benefit to think about it from the most positive place of like, well, like I encourage clients to think of something silly. Like if they, if they don't get any feedback on why the person wasn't interested be like, well, maybe I look like their mom, or like, well,

Laura
love

Jillian
like maybe I'm just like, my sense of humor is so good that they're threatened.

Jillian
Like whatever. Cause like, well, if you're never gonna know you might as well make it something that makes you feel good.

Taly
I love that

Taly
It's interesting to hear you talk about the concept of rejection that way, cuz I'm thinking about it also in terms of like other parts of our lives, like as an example, Laura and I, we apply for all sorts of grants and opportunities and programs. We apply for so many that I forget after we've applied, which ones we've applied to so that if we get rejected, I'm. Oh, right. I, I didn't even remember that. Cuz I've, I've applied to 30 more in the intern because I'm just like we're putting ourselves out there and just because one says no doesn't mean the another one won't say yes. And to be honest, we've had several say yes. And those have been incredible opportunities and saying yes to a different one might have taken us away from those one, those other ones.

Taly
And so seeing it as like a, you know, I'm just gonna put ourselves out there and we're gonna see what sticks and the opportunities that come our way are gonna be really incredible for us and the ones, the doors that are closed weren't meant for us. And it just softens the blow of rejection because we also get the acceptances because we are putting ourselves out there and we're putting ourselves out there so much that we don't put so much value on each individual opportunity. Um, and so I think it's just really interesting to, to kind of take that concept of rejection and see it in those different aspects of our lives. Because I think in dating the stakes, feel so much higher, but if you think about it in a similar way, as you know, Work opportunities, or I don't know if you're thinking about it in like social opportunities or whatever.

Taly
It just, it makes you think about how they're parallel and can help you potentially detach that really high kind of stakes nature feeling of it. Um, in the dating context.

Jillian
That's exactly right

Jillian
I got the. Idea of, oh, what would a securely attached person say? I got it from the book attached. Like I, I devoured that book in like two days, like a classic anxiously attached person. I'm like, let me read this book at attachment theory in 48 hours. So I will be healed forever. Um,

Taly
I feel like I need

Jillian
but yeah, it's, it's really good.

Jillian
It's just a primer on how to handle being in your attachment style and understanding different attachment styles. Um, But for folks who are more anxiously attached or can get anxiously attached depending on different situations, it really, really recommends dating multiple people at once, which I can find really challenging.

Jillian
Like when I meet someone who I like my first instinct is to be like, well, why would I go out with anyone else? This person's great. When in reality, I have no idea yet if we're gonna work out, I have no idea yet if they're dating other people, they probably are, we're in New York city. Like it's not fair to myself.

Jillian
And also it makes it easier for me to be present with the other person I'm with, if I know, like, okay, I'm not putting all of my brain focus on this one person. And also to just maintain my life, like have my friends, go to events, do other stuff, because otherwise I'm gonna spin out on this poor one person who like doesn't realize I am putting so much brain energy into them.

Taly
I think that's so true. Um, and just as a, a, and I know Jillian, you live in New York too. I think there's one extra challenge. And I actually have a secondary question on this in a moment, the the challenge in seeing lots of people, sometimes our lives feel so busy that how can we like squeeze in seeing multiple people? When sometimes it feels like a burden to like put yourself out there to meet just one person. And I think hearing what you said at the end, there is. Make sure that you still see your friends and that you're still doing the things you love and all of those other things can still also be those, like you're not losing yourself in that one person. And I think that's really important. So even if you can't, you know, squeeze in dates with multiple people, cuz your life is really busy, you can still make sure that you are not putting all of your eggs in that person's basket And you are still maintaining parts of yourself so that if it doesn't work out because, you know, statistically, it probably won't because there are billions of people out there and um, You know, you still have yourself and you don't have to feel like it was, I don't know. You don't have to put, you don't have to have felt like that basket, all of those eggs are broken. Um, cuz you have some in your friend basket, your hobby basket, your work basket, wherever it is that you've put them.

Jillian
Yeah and how hard that can feel like it, it totally is difficult to balance all of. Things and that, like, there is no perfect balance. I find for myself sometimes I'll like suddenly, for some reason, I match with a few people and we actually manage to make plans and meet up in person and I'm like, oh, okay. So like right now I'm on a wave where maybe I am gonna go on three dates in one week and then the next two weeks I have no dates.

Jillian
And then after that I do have three dates in a week. And like, that's okay. It's, it's so messy. There's no perfect formula for it.

Taly
Yes. So this actually, like I said, I have another question for you about dating in cities and maybe this is unique to cities because they are so big and there's always so much to going, going on, but there's the same sort of paradox of choice that happens when it comes to communities and events as it does with people on dating apps because there's so many things to do and people to meet that it can be daunting and it can be hard to know where to begin. So I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on how to best sift through options to find a good fit when you are looking for, you know, connection, whether it's romantic or community or whatever it may be.

Jillian
Oh, okay. You can't see me. I'm grinning really big. I love this question because I find so many people, men and women and everyone, can make their profile like a dating profile, very generic because they wanna appeal to as many people as possible. And they don't wanna say anything that'll scare people off, I find it's best to include things that will scare the wrong people off, like say things that will intentionally filter people out.

Jillian
So what I find really interesting is I'm on Bumble and I'll find like, oh, I'll match with someone and I'll send them a message. And then they like immediately unmatch me or they don't respond. And my assumption is, oh, they actually went back and read my profile and there's something in there that they didn't like.

Jillian
Uh, cuz just, you know, so many people swipe without reading people's profiles. And so in mine I include that I don't drink alcohol. I include that I don't want kids. I include that I'm six feet tall. Uh, I include that I'm looking for a long term relationship. So I'm like, I mean business, like if you don't like any of these things, you're not like if you drink a ton, if you're looking for something casual, if you don't wanna really tall woman, like you're, you're gonna not say hi,

Laura
I have a question for you. I have a really good friend who is over six feet tall and it's so funny to me because she personally does not care ah, so she's heterosexual, so she dates men. Um, and it was so funny. I was talking with her, uh, cause I, one of the things I love about working in the dating space is everybody shares with us, their dating stories. And I am so here for it because I love dating. I love love, and I love real love, real, authentic, love, all that fun stuff. And. It's just so interesting. And I'm wondering if you've had a similar experience where she said that she never wants to put a filter on height, but she has gone on so many dates with, uh, men who were shorter than her, who it was just such a problem for them. And so I'm curious. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, you know, I have no problem dating shorter guys. I love shorter guys. The problem is that a lot of them are just like, um, They get so intimidated by her height or they're like, cuz she's six, four I think.

Jillian
oh my God. A queen.

Laura
yes. 1000%. Yeah. And she is like drop dead gorgeous and she loves wearing heels, loves getting dressed up and she's like, I am not gonna not wear heels for whoever I'm with. And it's been something that she's broken up with people because they were like, you can't wear heels with me because I feel emasculated. Yeah. I know. And it makes me so sad. So when, cause I was sharing. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's one of the things that I know telling we've, we've talked about this a couple of times, you know, how do we strike that balance? Cuz a height filter, I think makes sense for, or sorry, height filters don't make sense in general, cuz like off by a couple inches who cares, but I'm noticing that for taller women, it's a completely different dating experience because of, of, you know, that. I, I wanna say like the patriarchy, toxic masculinity, all these sorts of things that are systemic, that we just breathe.

Laura
So I'm curious. Jillian if you've had like a similar experience in, in your dating life.

Jillian
I love this topic, cuz there's so many kind of, subtle gender things in here. Um, like for me, my last boyfriend was, I think he was maybe five nine, and I'm six feet tall. So I'm totally fine dating someone who's shorter than me. Like I think the most important thing is the energy of the person. And like you said, if they're comfortable being with a woman who's taller than them. Because to me, that's like a sign of being really comfortable in yourself is not caring that that's true. And. The amount of times a guy has said to me, like, wow, I've never been on a date with a woman who's this tall. And meanwhile, they might be six, two or six, three. And I'm like, what, what? You've never been on a woman who's still shorter than you. Like, what are you talking about? Do you always go out with women who are like five, four, and you look like a huge giant next to?

Taly
Four with someone who's six,

Jillian
it it's something. My mom and I, cuz my mom is, um, my mom's five, 11 or five 10 is we would always see these like really petite women with these really tall men. And we'd always get mad.

Jillian
Like. Oh,

Taly
I'm five four and I'm with someone who's six four, uh, uh to be honest, I didn't care. I dated men who were 5' 7, 5' whatever, but I just, I don't know, love to me, the height has nothing to do with it. And I do feel a little bit guilty cuz his height is lost on me. There are plenty of women that would love that. I often tell him he's too tall because I like this is uncomfortable on my neck. Like I

Jillian
You're like pick me

Taly
basically, um,

Jillian
It's something where I find like, I am like, if, if you just put me in a crowded bar and we're like, who do you naturally gravitate to? Based on looks alone. I would say the tall burly dude, because as a six foot tall woman with a deeper voice and broad shoulders and a big personality, it's rare for me to feel.

Taly
Yeah.

Jillian
Dainty and feminine. And so to be around a really big dude feels like, like as long as he's a big dude, who's kind, it feels like really good in my nervous system to be around someone who's bigger than me. Like I feel safe. Uh, so there, I feel like there is something, a little biological in it that maybe I feel like that's not super politically correct to say, but it is true for me.

Laura
Yeah. Uh, it, it's so interesting that there are, I think it's one thing to acknowledge biologically evolutionary, how we got to where we are. Um, and then also being able to question, you know, is that even relevant for us anymore? Cuz it's like, you can't ignore how you physically feel in the presence of certain people. I mean, you can ignore it, but um, but yeah, I think there's, there's a little bit of nature or nurture at play at play with these. So. Kind of continuing on this conversation about kind of pickiness. Uh, so when it comes to building communities and making connections, we all, I think do have this tendency to be pretty picky and we create these boxes for ourselves and for others, and it limits the chance to explore something different and often something that could actually be pretty great. So what advice do you have for our listeners when it comes to stepping out of their comfort zone and exploring something new? Even if it may not tick every box, we think we're looking for.

Jillian
Yeah, I love making analogies to dating because I find it's something we culturally talk about the most and have the most language for. So when it comes to making new friends, like going to a new community, meeting new people, you might not like it on the first time. Like if you try a dating app and you go on a date with one person and you don't click. You're probably not gonna say, well, I'm never gonna go on a date from a dating app again, because that one experience was bad. So every other experience is obviously gonna be bad. Like we, we know well enough that that's not true. And yet I find with people when it comes to making new friends and going to new communities. They'll go to like say a meditation event and they show up and they're like, oh, that was weird. Maybe I didn't like the teacher, maybe I didn't like the people. I'm not gonna go to another meditation event ever again. You're like, no, no, no, no, no. Like you could literally go to the same one next week and it'll be different people and you might like it. And so my challenge to people is to one, just experiment with going into new spaces , but also if you don't like the first time you go, try going again. And also I would recommend trying to volunteer if you can, because volunteering at events really gives you a sense of belonging, like you've got a job to do. You immediately have connection to the people who are hosting it. It's easier to make conversation with people. It's kind of like my ultimate hack for feeling at home, in a space. It's just like, yeah, go and set up the chairs, go and help people check in. It's so dumb, but like immediately, you're gonna be like, oh yeah, I've got a job. I'm I'm safe here.

Laura
Never really thought of it that way. I used to always volunteer at conferences because I was broke as a joke and I would want to go to these conferences and they would often be incredibly generous in terms of getting you either free access, very steeply, discounted meal vouchers, those sorts of things. And I have made some of my closest friends by volunteering at these random events and then just staying in contact with them. Even though many times we don't live in the same city and I just, I never really put two and two together. I was often driven by having... not just by wanting to get the free or discounted ticket, but I was also really driven by that like forced sense of community. And also sometimes you get to do incredibly cool things. I got to volunteer at an event once where they needed people to escort all the famous people. Uh, and so I got to meet some of my idols and heroes at some point. So I just, I, oh my gosh. I never thought about how great of an experience that is for people when they're looking to build their own community. So you're right. That's 100% like such a good pro tip.

Jillian
Yeah, it's the number one tip. I'm like you, you save money, you meet cool people, your social anxiety's gonna be less. You meet like all the organizers. It's just better.

Laura
100%. Yes.

Taly
I'm gonna have to try this.

Laura
Yes.

Taly
Um, so we, uh, would love to transition to chat a little bit more about Quinn and Brianna's date. Um, you know, we had shared with you, uh, that we had actually had some technical connection issues on the date, such that our normal date prompt got a bit lost. You know, we had disconnections, reconnections by the time we reconnected, we just kind of like, you know, the, they were just kind of starting the conversation fresh. And I'm wondering if you think challenges like that, like these technical challenges can actually impact how people connect?

Jillian
Well, I found it so fascinating that when the two of them, kind of, weren't sure how to start the conversation. Of course the conversation starts with, so what do you do for work? Because how ingrained is it in us to ask that question? And from that, I think they were kind of like really wanting to connect with each other, but not totally sure what question or prompt would lead to a little bit of a conversation with more depth. And so, you know, you talk about like your favorite restaurants and what you do for work and all that good stuff. And. I think that's why we all kind of need to have these questions in our back pocket of things to ask people that they're not like, what's your relationship with your mom? Like, but just something that's like a little bit deeper or something that well, and I find a mark of a good conversation starter is something that gives people permission to light up a little bit, like to say like, oh, what's something you're excited about? What's something that made you laugh recently? What's something that you're grateful for? Like, and it's just, I find that what's something that you're excited about recently is a very neutral, like, it doesn't sound like a hippie woo woo question. And like,

Taly
And they can take it any direction they want. Yeah.

Jillian
They could be like, oh, I'm excited. Cuz I have this breakthrough in therapy. Or they could be like, oh, I'm excited. I, I got accepted to foster a dog. I'm excited cuz I got a promotion at work. Like it, it could be anything

Taly
I love that.

Jillian
and yeah, it's just sweet. It opens people up more.

Taly
I wonder if we should use that as a prompt and future date, laura,

Laura
I was thinking the same thing.

Jillian yeah. Feel free to take it.

Taly
do you have any other favorite questions? Hm.

Jillian Ooh, this one, this would be a weird starting question, but a question I really like is what's something that's a common misconception about you or like, what do you think people misunderstand about you? Which is it's funny, cuz it sounds kind of like a difficult question to answer, but I find people have an answer to that question really quickly. Like a,

Taly Mm

Jillian
like a shorter woman or a woman with a higher pitched voice might be like, oh, people assume that I'm not gonna be powerful in business or a guy who looks a little fratty might be like, oh, people assume that I'm not connected to my emotions or. Like I'm kind of an asshole or whatever. And it was like, everyone's got a thing that they wish people understood about them

Jillian
more deeply.

Taly
Yeah, it really goes to show just how misunderstood each and every one of us feels so regularly and how we kind of like, don't talk about it, but we want to

Jillian
Yeah. I have a friend who she did some sort of like really intense communication training and they all sat in a circle and said their first impressions of each other ,

Taly
want to . Oh my goodness.

Jillian
like brutal. I'm like, could not I'm like, actually, if I was in the space, I'd probably do it, but she was sharing that. Um, because she she's got a really bubbly personality like me. That she said people's kind of negative first impression of her was that she used her humor and her bubbliness to kind of cover some sort of pain or that it wasn't authentic. And I'm like, how much of a bummer is it that, that would be multiple people's assumption of like, oh, you're, you're not naturally connected to joy. This is a front

Laura
That's twist the knife

Taly
I feel like this says more about the person and their assumption about like, you know, what joy really is

Taly
than it does about the person who's bubbly. Um,

Jiliian
Completely.

Taly
oh, that's sad.

Jiliian
Well, Yeah. And I think she said that she, she, she, she, that said that, cause I'm, I imagine I'm sure that's also perception that people have of me. And I think younger me, that was definitely more true, but current me, I'm like, no, I just get really excited to be around people, to be in conversation. Like I become a really open sunny version of myself when I'm around the right people and it's super real.

Laura
Yeah. Uh, sometimes I think that people can't tell the difference between. This is, I'm just making this metaphor up now. They can't tell the difference between sunshine and fluorescent bulbs. It all looks like light.

Taly
I

Laura
Uh, and I, cause I, I definitely feel very similarly. Um, it's weird. Uh, people in my adult life for the most part will share with my family that I'm a very like bubbly and happy person. And then my family is like nu-uh, like she's cause I was a very angry child and I don't know.

Taly
can't even imagine that. Hm.

Laura
I was just like, I, I don't think I was anger. I just, I felt perpetually misunderstood and it came out as anger and frustration. And I've learned as an adult, how to express myself and it's allowed me to shed so much of this negative emotion so that who I naturally am, which is someone who is like way more optimistic and positive, to come out, although, uh, Taly, some of our messages

Taly
A lot gets lost in text.

Laura
it really does like you, you, you know, if I say like, how are you today via text, like, that's all you hear versus me be like, how are you today? Like, oh, I'm sing songy about it. Um, anyway, we, we digress a little bit there. Uh, but Jillian, so I'm curious to know. So if Quinn and Brianna coming back to the date, if they were to match and they were in the same city, what advice would you give to them to further their connect?

Jillian
okay. I would have them think about dates that would feel fun for them that this is something that's been inspired by some coach and clients recently that wouldn't put, put financial pressure on them because I've chatted with some male clients recently who have started to feel like a little resentful of constantly being assumed that they're gonna pay for a date. And I'm like, well, Find stuff that's free. Like just cuz you have money doesn't mean you need to spend it on dates with someone you've literally never met before. They'd be like, oh, okay. Like what would be fun? What would, what would be something that you would enjoy by yourself? Let alone with somebody else.

Taly
think that's, especially if you live in a city, that's can be, it can seem hard, but it can be pretty easy if you just like, look up like, Hey, what are some things to do in my city today? And Jillian, I know you have extra insight on this in New York because there's so many amazing things to do. And maybe in the winter, it's harder to find like outdoor free stuff, but there's always something you can go like stroll Chelsea market, and that is technically free and you can buy a bite here or there or snack, but you don't have to go to like a full dinner where you're spending, you know, 80 plus dollars on two people or whatever, you know, wherever it is that you might be going, if you're getting drinks or not, whatever, but there are opportunities to explore and get to know like explore wherever it is and get to know each other without spending money. So I think that's a great call out.

Jillian
Thank you. Yes, and we,

Laura
I, will. Oh, sorry. Just one thing really quickly. Um, one thing that, uh, this will be one of the few things that I say New York has a leg up on LA. Um, and maybe it's just, cuz I've lived in LA for the pandemic for so long. When I used to live just outside of the city, I would go into, or the city being New York city. I used to go into the city all the time, like at least once a week. And I remember I would never really have plans. I would just look something up on the internet, you know, it's pre, you know, cell phone days kind of a thing. And there was always something to do. And there was, uh, I think entire lists dedicated to like free concerts, free activities. You can go to free this free, that. Never at a loss to find something free to do. And like any timeframe that you need to do it in, uh, guess New York is the city that never sleeps. So I will say that that's one of the really beautiful things about New York is that those lists still exist. You just gotta Google them.

Taly
Jillian. Do you wanna share a little bit about, you know, your insights on this?

Jillian
Oh, yeah. So I run a weekly newsletter called the joy list, which is events that you can go to by yourself and leave with a new friend and the intention behind it is just to let people know that every day of the week in New York city there's spaces, where you can go and be in community and be in connection. And I curate it to be spaces where usually I've attended the event, or I know the facilitators, or like they're in my circle and there's spaces that are really warm and open and there's some element of facilitation. So, you know, like not all the onus is on you to think of how to start a conversation. There's gonna be prompts. There's gonna be people there who wanna go a little bit deeper. because I don't know. There's so many bars and so many restaurants and so many shows, but that doesn't really facilitate connections super well.

Taly
I love the Joy List. I still have to go to an event now that I've moved back to New York. Um, I've been in a little bit of hibernation with COVID and then travels to for work stuff. So I'm excited, uh, as the weather gets warmer and as COVID recedes to start going to Joy List events.

Laura
I can't wait for you to expand and, uh, have someone in LA. something

Laura
know, oh my God. I always get messages from people like, oh, is there something like this in LA? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm just, I'm sticking to New York. I'm not trying to expand.

Taly
New York. New. You're sorry. Laura, you're just gonna have to visit

Laura
Okay. Okay. Well, that's not a problem. I love New York. I'll be back.

Taly
But in any case, another question for you about Quinn and Brianna's date, I'm wondering if you, uh, thought that there were any particular strengths that stood out to you?

Jillian
I think Quinn did a really good job of asking questions, which I noticed that I think there's this gender stereotype of the woman will ask the man more questions or like, you'll see on TikTok or something, women complaining about how they asked the guy all the questions. And he never asked her one. Uh, he was like really clearly asking questions based off of what she said and was listening and was asking from a place of curiosity. And I think that was definitely a big strength. Was, was him asking her thoughtful questions totally and something I'll quickly add is just to

Taly
I agree. I think that's such a powerful thing in any date. Um, It's so easy. It seems like it's hard, cuz you're like, oh, I have to come up with something really unique, but really you could just ask a follow up question about what they just shared. And that is a great way to continue the conversation. Show that you wanna get to know them, actually get to know them. So I think asking questions is underrated. People should do it more. Hmm.

Jillian
think about. how to make a question, a little deeper, but a question you would always ask, like people often ask, oh, where are you from? And I like to ask, how has, uh, how do I say this? How did where you were raised impact you? A tiny change, but the answer is so totally different. People could be like, oh yeah, I was raised in Fairfield, Connecticut. Versus, yeah, I was raised in Fairfield, Connecticut, and like, I had totally the benefits of living in an upper class beautiful space. And it was hypercompetitive and I'm still learning, like how to just relax as a person.

Taly
I'm gonna start using that instead.

Jillian
Yeah. It, it's hard to figure out how to phrase it. Like how, how did the place you were raised impact you? I think that that works.

Laura
Yeah. Oh, I think that's wonderful. So Jillian, million dollar question million monopoly dollar question Date in a Blink: what did you think? Did you think that Quinn and Brianna matched and why or why not? And any other general thoughts you might have on the date?

Jillian
Honestly, I don't know. I, I'm not sure. I think they both were like, curious about each other. I don't know if they got deep enough to really figure out if they aligned in terms of like values or what they're looking for. And what I will say is that two people who sign up to have a date on a podcast like probably the kinds of people who could meet up and just have fun and see where it goes.

Laura
I love that assessment of the types of people that come on the podcast. Uh, cause I think that's

Jillian
gonna like each other.

Laura
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, uh, sorry. And then the next thing

Taly
was waiting for you to share what you thought Laura,

Laura
I

Taly
before I do the big reveal.

Laura
Yeah, I did think that they matched very similar to what you're what you were saying. Jillian. I think that I completely agree with you. they be a long term romantic match. It's too early to tell. I think there was a little bit of awkwardness in the beginning, especially with the technical difficulties that they had, but. I really feel like a couple of minutes into the date. It felt like there was a lot of banter. They really hit their stride. It felt like they were connecting a little bit more. And so I, I do feel like at a minimum, a second date was on the horizon, whether that's a second voice date or a phone call or a video call, or if they actually met up in person. But so Taly, drum roll, please. What actually happened?

Taly
so they did match, uh, they actually live in separate cities, so I'm not sure where it, I know we usually try to match people in the same city, but sometimes we don't have the right, you know, age, sexuality, composition. So we do try to stay at least regional. So it's very possible that they, um, Could see each other in real life at some point, but they're not necessarily in the same exact place, but I did think, uh, you know, sharing what, you know, echoing what you both said, that they had a, you know, a sweet conversation despite the connection issues. And they, you know, I think it's really nice when people talk about their pets and they were able to bond a little bit about that, about how their pets are, you know, making little noises in the background. So I thought that they, um, you know, had some moments of connection and T B D whether it wa would go deeper, but, uh, they did match after their first date. Yay.

Jillian
Yay.

Taly
Okay. So two final questions for you, Jillian, I'll start with the first, as we wrap up a question, we like to ask all of our experts. Do you have any quick words of wisdom or advice for our audience besides all of the wonderful things you've just shared?

Jillian
Oh, yeah. I would just say that if you feel lonely, you are not alone

Taly
Oh, I just got goosebumps.

Laura
yeah.not alone. Hmm.

Taly
So thank you for that. And for joining us today as our final question, how can our audience get connected with you?

Jillian
Yeah. So I am ThatJillian on everything like Twitter, Instagram, my website is thatjillian.com. You can learn about my coaching and my speaking and all that good stuff. And if you wanna subscribe to the joy list, you can go to joylist.nyc is the website.

Taly
And I highly recommend that, especially if you live in NYC, but even beyond, because I don't know, it could be kind of inspiring to see what's going on in one place and seek that out in your own city. So highly recommend. Awesome. And I'm gonna include all of that in the show notes, uh, for anyone who's interested in checking it out. [advert]

Taly
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re hosting Brianna and Quinn for a Blink Date! Modern dating sucks. But it doesn’t have to! Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you’ll listen in on 10 minute voice-only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It’s time to stop collecting penpals and start, oh, I don’t know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating?! Is that even a thing anymore?! But for real, dating should be fun! We hope listening in inspires y’all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we’ll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our hand-picked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after ten minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out!

Laura
Before we jump into today’s Blink Date, here’s a quick word from our sponsors.

[sponsored content]

Taly
[Notice of Blink audio issues]

Quinn
Yes, I actually have no idea what, how this works to be honest. It's kind of an interesting concept, um, but I don't know if they're like rules to it or what we're supposed to talk about other than the intro question.

Brianna
Same, same.

Quinn
Um...

Brianna
I mean, it's boring, um, and or not boring button, you know, basic, you know, your typical interview questions, but, uh, what do you do for work?

Quinn
So I'm currently working on uh, some tech startup site I founded about a year ago.

Brianna
Oh, wow, that's really cool. You founded it yourself?

Quinn
Yeah. And that's how I kind of actually came across. This is like, one of our, like, founder support friend groups, posted something about this. And so I stumbled upon the Blink in a Date thing and offered to try it out.

Brianna
Cool.

Quinn
What about you?

Brianna
I work in public relations. And I actually came across this because it came through on one of the newsletters I subscribe to, for kind of different podcast and media opportunities that are out there.

Quinn
Oh, interesting. Oh, which one’s that?

Brianna
I think in this case, it was Quoted?

Quinn
Okay. Interesting. And that just like covers podcasts like that you'd be interested in listening to or podcasts that you want to be on?

Brianna
It's so it's not just podcasts in this case, but it's a place where different media platforms, so you know, it could be like Forbes, it could be BuzzFeed, you know, it could it could be any number of outlets, as well as podcasts, um. Or even local TV stations, honestly, they can go on the platform and say, 'Hey, I'm looking for you know, an expert who can speak about this topic.' And then you can pitch them in return and say, 'hey, you know, my client can speak to this topic. And here's some of the information that they can share with you. Do you want to connect with them?'

Quinn
So it's kind of like HARO.

Brianna
It's exactly like, it's just another version.

Quinn
Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So I like subscribe to HARO, but I hadn't heard Quoted, maybe check it out.

Brianna
Quoted is a newer one. There's a free version, like, like HARO, but uh, there's also a paid version as well.

Quinn
Gotcha.

Brianna
Yeah.

Quinn
Nice. So what's on that topic, though? What's your favorite? Do you get like a daily mailer? What's your favorite one? I feel like I get 1000 now.

Brianna
oh, my gosh, I don't even know how many newsletters I get at this point. But I think my favorite ones are probably from Time and Fast Company.

Quinn
Okay.

Brianna
I just think they do a really, you know, both format wise and content wise, they just do a really nice job, and, um, I apologize if you hear noises in the background, my bedroom door shut and my cat has decided he disagrees.

Quinn
That's okay. I can, yeah, definitely understand. Thankfully, my, my dog’s not making noise right now. But that's interesting. I actually, yeah, Time and Fast Money. I don't have either of those.

Brianna
Especially I think they do a good job of getting, like, a good mix of different things. You know, health care, current events, climate change all of that.

Quinn
Nice.

Brianna
Yeah.

Quinn
Yeah, definitely. I'll have to, to check that out. I feel like on mine I have like a few that are kind of the same, and so it gets kind of boring.

Brianna
Yeah

Quinn
Like a few different news sites. But I really like, I think the New York Times has done a really good one on like, the daily COVID update. It's a little depressing, but they have like, actual data, which is really cool. Like, it's very data-centric, versus just kind of random segments of the day. And then I like the Executive Sum, I'm not in finance, but I find it funny. You know, some of the stuff that they, that they put out. It's basically just like, finance stuff of the day.

Brianna
I don't think I've heard of that one. Huh, I'll have to look it up, because I actually, I have, you know, I'm not super into finance, but I do have clients in that space. So

Quinn
yeah, it's run by like, kind of like a meme Instagram account. So it's, it's like it's quasi a joke, but they have real information. So it's, you know, they, they just don't take themselves too seriously versus some of the other mailers kind of do.

Brianna
Kind of like the Daily Carnage. I don't know if you've ever heard of that one,

Quinn
In passing, maybe, yeah,

Brianna
Okay that one's more marketing focused. But yeah, they, you know, they're, they try to be quippy and you know, little sound bites and

Quinn
Wow, it's actually, it's crazy when you think about how many I mean, it's just I don't know when these started maybe a few years ago, but now just everybody and their mother has, like one of these mailers that they send out all the time.

Brianna
I started my current job only about two months ago. And it was like, okay, now I have to, you know, re-sign up for all of them. And it was one of those things that had slowly accumulated at my last job. And so I was like, wait a second, how many? Like, how many? Am I just going out? And re-subscribing to? Oh, my gosh,

Quinn
Yeah, kind of absurd. But anyway, so you're new to the job? Does that mean you're new to the city?

Brianna
Um not completely new. So I've been in Atlanta for just over two years now. Um, but new to this job, and this job is more in the city. I was kind of on the perimeter before.

Quinn
Okay, nice. Do you like it? Or are you gonna bail?

Brianna
I love it. I love it. I bought my first house in February. So I am ideally here for the long term now that I'm kind of stuck with some roots. Um and I have family in the area as well.

Quinn
Oh, nice. Congrats. That's a big move. First house.

Brianna
Yeah.

Quinn
That's a commitment.

Brianna
Was slightly terrifying, uh, not gonna lie, but it's been nice to not have to pay rent. I mean, I still have a mortgage, but at least I own it now.

Quinn
Yeah. How was the, how was that process in, in Atlanta? I feel like, um, you know, in the current climate, it can. It's been difficult.

Brianna
You know, I got so lucky. Um, that was part of why I bought the house that I did. I, so, I actually found my house is a new build, which I quite frankly, did not think I could afford. Um, I, it's a new build, I was not looking at new builds. I was not looking at townhouses or anything of the sort, I completely wanted something different. And my realtor was like, well, but just look, just look at this one, like, let's just let's just try it, and I saw him was like, that's like, that's it. I didn't, like I got in early enough that I could customize a lot of it. Um, it's not in the area. It's not in a bad area. It's just not in, like, the area I would have picked, um, as far as like restaurants and food scene and all of that. But it was it, it was surprisingly easier to find than I thought it would be like I think I just got, I literally think it was just lucky timing.

Quinn
Nice, well, that's cool. I mean, if it worked out, it worked out. That's cool. It's always exciting. I feel like that's, I mean, it's definitely one of the biggest purchases you'll make. So, it's cool to, like, have a good experience with it.

Brianna
Yeah, yeah. And I was lucky. I got the my, my realtor was a recommendation from somebody I knew. So I at least had that kind of in my back pocket to start with.

Quinn
Nice so if you had your best, best restaurant near you, what kind of restaurant would it be?

Brianna
Oh god, um, if we're talking like right near me, it's it's as good as fast food that's like that's that's as good as it's gonna get.

Quinn
I mean, like ideally, if you could just like pick pick up something and put it right next to your house.

Brianna
Ideally I don't know that there's a specific like kind of food as far as like Mexican or Italian or American or anything like that. But just I love a good local restaurant that has good food, you know, good vibes. Um, and I just like supporting a local, local, nothing against the chains, but I just like supporting a local restaurant and I just think that there's something to be said for going to a place that you can't find anywhere else.

Quinn
That's I mean, that's fair. I think that makes sense. Would get more of an experience.

Brianna
Yeah, I will say, that said, anytime it's good Mexican I am 100% there, or I mean, it's classic but a good burger and fries will get me anytime.

Quinn
Nice. The basics there you go. I gotta say I definitely I like the the kind of same thing sort of the the mom and pop shops like it's it's great to support, but I found that especially during the the pandemic stuff like with the remote ordering and stuff, it makes it almost harder. Like I've fallen into like eating Chipotle more recently, just because their online ordering is so easy and I can just swing by and pick it up.

Brianna
Same like Wendy's or McDonald's I mean, so not healthy, but if I'm like it's just been a long day, and I don't want to cook it takes five seconds.

Quinn
Yeah. Which is kind of frustrating and then or like if you have to go and wait and stuff like it's just it's tough at some of the like, kind of non-chain spots but I think especially these days like they need so much support because it's

Brianna
Yeah,

Quinn
So hard for them.

Brianna
Or how long have you been in the area, are you from the area?

Quinn
I'm in Austin yeah but I haven't been here that long but there's a lot of one of the things I really like about it is it's, it's, so so many fewer chains than most places.

Taly
At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

Taly
[…….]Will they match?

Tune in next week, when we’ll chat with an expert about the date, to find out!

Taly
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re joined by Anthony Canapi, an LA-based matchmaker and dating coach.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink dates? Or when they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

[advert]

Taly
On today's episode of Date in a Blink. We have the pleasure of speaking to LA based matchmaker and dating coach Anthony canap. Anthony is the founder of best man matchmaking, where he specializes in high profile, professional matchmaking, consulting, and date planning for men, women, and gay and queer men.

Taly
When it comes to matchmaking and coaching, Anthony brings a holistic offline approach providing insight that encourages a deeper understanding of each other, as well as oneself.

Taly
So, hi, Anthony, thank you so much for joining us today. We're super excited to hear your infinite wisdom and your thoughts on Jessica and Alex's date.

Taly
So we're gonna dive right in. So you've no doubt spent a lot of time talking with singles about some of the challenges on the dating scene. And we are wondering what are some of the most common dating challenges and what advice do you have for confronting those challenges?

Anthony
Woo where to begin well, first of all, thank you so much, Laura and Taly for having me on this episode, it's such an honor to be here and to be one of your experts. So I believe in today's modern society because of the usage of technology and all these different dating apps coming into play, people are starting to set all of these unrealistic expectations when it comes to the dating apps. They think, especially for people who are not native to the dating apps, they wanna say they want a specific height, a specific race, specific hobbies, specific viewpoints. And not only that. Adding on all of the unrealistic expectations. I also believe in today's modern society. There is now a form of dating with the intent of wrong intention. So what I mean by that is back in the day, people used to date for the intent of getting to a long-term relationship. And we still to that, to this day, but a lot of people wanna date and then they get on the first date. They had a great time, but then they have this kind of like, It should be given of now that we had a good first date. Now let's see if we can go back to my place and have sex. And that's not the point of dating if you wanted to be upfront and have intercourse, or if you just wanted to casually date be upfront about it. Anthony
I mean, a lot of people would love to wait until the last minute because they wanna see a vibe check, of course, but they're not. So I think my advice when it comes to confronting these challenges is having the purpose of dating with intention and knowing what you wanna do when it comes to the dating scene, whether you wanna casually date, make that known. If you want something long term, make that known. If you want something monogamous, make that known. Dating with intent also comes with effective communication. You need to let them know you can't feel it as a way of, I need to kind of feel this person out. Of course, you need to feel a person out. That's how you develop. If you have the same energy, if you have the same wavelength, but you also need to be forward with your views and you also need to let people know what you are seeking when it comes to dating, whether it's casual or whether it's something more long.

Taly
So I have a follow up question. So I totally agree. And I think right now, people who are looking for something casual and something committed, they're all swimming in the same pool and they're not necessarily upfront about what they're looking for.

Taly
And the, the dating world can definitely use more intent in that process and more communication. But the other end of that is overcommunication early on to the point where it scares people off, like the whole idea of immediately putting, like I'm looking for someone to marry might be too intense for somebody to read in a profile.

Taly
If they're looking to meet someone, potentially get married, but they're also kind of in that, in between phase. And so, and that goes also beyond like, how much do you share about yourself? You know, if you're divorced or if you are looking for an open relationship, all of these kind of edge cases that don't fit in the normal mold.

Taly
How do you go about being really open and honest from the beginning without necessarily putting so much on the table that people get overwhelmed by just looking, you know, at the, if you're you're on a traditional dating app, if you're just looking at that static version of someone?

Anthony
Right. So something that I always say when it comes to creating conversations, whether that is on a dating app or whether you're on the first date is you leave the serious questions for the third date. Mm-hmm the first date. I always like to tell whether it's clientele or whether it's my friend who are dating. I always say go in with a mindset of a curious child, a curious child wants to get to know more about a person, more about personality traits, what they like to do for fun, hobbies, interests, passions, goals. That's something where you should talk. Those are topics you should bring up on a first date. I think also what people need to realize when it comes to that first date. I like to tell people. It's a very long speed date. so, you know, in the typical speed dating aspect, you only have five to 10 minutes to really explain who you are and tell them what you like to do, what you do for a living.

Anthony
That's the same thing for a first date, but just for a match longer hour period. Yeah. So people feel the need of bringing marriage, kids, religion up on the first date. You don't need to do that. That can wait for the later date. What really should be on the first date. What should really happen on the first date is if someone passes the romantic vibe check, if someone really has interest in mind, if someone feel as though that there is something that you, something about their personality or their way, they look that you wanna get to know more about them, but not only that you wanna see this person and ask yourself: how do I feel around this person? Can I be my authentic self when I'm around this person, do I feel safe around this person? Can I trust this person? And if they pass those vibe checks, and if you have interest that can go towards a second date, then. Plan something for next week or the week after for that second date. And then once you get to go on the second date, people tend to open up more about intentions and what they really want. So I always say for the first date, keep it like, keep it fun, have be yourself and just really. Date for fun. Dating is supposed to be fun. we totally

Taly
agree. That's her mantra. Um, but where do the people who just wanna go on that first date and then be like, okay, come home with me.

Taly
Where do they fit in? And that's what I'm trying to filter out. Like, how do you, you know, know from the very beginning, if you're going on a date who has with someone who has the intention of, let me get to the second date, let me get to the third date. Let's have those serious conversations once it's appropriate, as opposed to somebody who doesn't even wanna get to that stage, cuz they're really just in it to have sex.

Taly
You know, valid reason to try to meet people if that's what you're looking for. But how do you be upfront about that? Um, before, you know, getting to that third date, cuz that's not what you're looking for at all.

Anthony
Right. And to that, I say honesty is the best policy because a lot of people fear that. I've been told a lot, Anthony, I'm not coming across too upfront. I'm not coming across too harsh. I'm not coming across strong. And I'm like, no, that's your intent. And you may never know. Maybe someone else has the same intent and that is something in which you can. Better figure out how you two can meet so that you don't have to feel as though you need to waste the coffee date, waste a date at the beach waste somewhere where you're walking around. Whereas if you're looking for the intent to have sex and the person has the same mutual agreeance. Then you can plan something more effective, like, okay, let's go back to my place or let me go over to your place. And of course to those people, I always say proceed with caution, cuz you don't know this person, but if that's your intent, of course be safe, but also be upfront, effectively communicate and definitely use that mantra as a way. This is what I want right now. I don't wanna see as though I'm misleading you, which is why I say you need to communicate with the person. And if this person have the same intent, then you can go from there.

Taly
Awesome. Thank you for that.

Laura
Yeah. Sort of a, another follow up in this similar vein. One thing that I, uh, I'm, I'm not sure if this is more just specific in the, the heterosexual community, but I know a lot of women in particular can be really, um, I don't, I don't wanna say not trusting, but I'm not trusting of the other person that they might be going on a date with because, uh, I, I know even when I was dating, I had this problem all the time where I would go on multiple dates with someone and then feel like we're on the same page. And then finally, you know, once you are intimate with somebody, then, you know, you never hear from him again. And so I'm curious, uh, cause I know that you bur you work with both, um, men and women of all sexual orientations. And so I'm curious. Kind of what your advice is on both sides, you know, for the people that are looking for something serious that they don't, you know, ultimately get duped. And then for the people who are looking for something that is, um, uh, you know, a little more casual, how they can. I, I think more authentically connect with people so that they don't end up breaking hearts. You know, one of the things that I, I think I see a lot is that the people who are looking for something casual have this attitude of really not caring, how they negatively impact the other person. And so I'm curious if that comes up, uh, for you in, in the coaching that you do. And when you're talking with, um, With your different clients, but like one of the things you sent over in your bio is that you're guiding bachelors to be their true gentleman. And so I'm curious, based on kind of this conversation, how you define a true gentleman and what are some ways that you kind of help your clients achieve that?

Anthony
Right. So when, I mean, guiding meant to being their true gentleman, Let's be honest ladies, and I'm just being very transparent. We live in a very male focused misogynistic world and you women have it hard. And I understand that I won't understand, but I'm willing to learn and understand the struggles that you as women have. And a lot of men don't realize that. And I think a lot of men don't realize it because they never had to go through. So it's definitely something where I coach men, heterosexual men specifically, I always say women are different species of their own. And there are things that you're just never going to understand, and they need that support system. They need someone to be there for them when they're going through a hard time. And you as a men should be grateful that you don't have to go through, but as a gentleman, women should have this person. Be a form of leverage when it comes to they have their back, they can trust them. They can be the person in which this is a partner that I can definitely see. Takes my feelings into account as well, not only his feelings, but he also is willing to listen to me. And he's willing to understand where I'm coming from. And as a gentleman, there are things that you do for women that I personally believe should be a given. So for example, asking her how her date is, how you can help her treating her here and there. And. Saying, like buy her gifts. I mean, like go to a movie so you can calm her nerves or having her just like talk it out. And then you just listening to her. That's what I say. When I say guiding meant to being their true gentleman when it comes to dating, because a lot of men don't really think about women's struggles or what women have to go through on an everyday basis. So I feel as though it's important for men to understand that, because I feel like women would have more appreciation towards that specific partner. When they, when men have that understanding, I wish we could bottle you up and give you two, all of the men in the world. Um, funny, the very beginning of your statement.

Taly
And we recently went to an event, um, that was hosted by a company that's run by men and they had drinks on their menu. Two of which one was reverse cowgirl. And the other was the leg spreader. And the, just the fact that it was so geared towards heterosexual men and so focused on what a heterosexual men would find of interest. Taly
Was just like baffling to me. Like was there no one, no women on their team to say, Hey, maybe not the best choice of drink names or Hey, maybe not appropriate to imply that alcohol should induce people to spread their legs. Um, and so, you know, it really just. You're right. Like the world is built for men and, um, it would be nice if, if more men recognized that, but also took steps to be true.

Taly
Gentlemen. Laura
I think the worst part for me about those drinks is that the description for one of them was Booy fruity and pretty too. And

Taly
just gotta be attractive.

Laura
Yep. Yeah, cuz it's all it's worth. Right? So sarcasm. So

Anthony
whatever happened to the nineties and eighties where the men had to go up to the front door and he had to confront the dad and grow some balls and be all like, I'm tough. And he's like, he's like pooping his pants and then whatever happened to. Oh, like, where's my gentleman. I got you a rose and I'm gonna take you out to a diner. We're gonna have a hot fudge Sunday and I'm gonna pay for everything. And then I'm gonna take you home. Whatever happened to that.

Taly
So, I don't know.

Taly
I, I will just say he should have to confront the mom too, because it should, shouldn't just be about, you know, a man confronting a, a daughter's, you know, father mothers have a role to play too, right? Yeah, you're right. Yeah. And also not everybody has both parents and some people might have two mothers, two fathers.

Laura
That's true. Um, Yeah. So I think it's just more confronting whoever their caretaker is as well from level of accountability. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And also just courting in general, right? Yes. Where there's so much that goes into, or there used to be a lot that went into the courting process. I, I will share a story that I find hilarious really quickly, and then we can move on. Um, my Nana, I remember talking with her about what it was like dating in the forties for her. And she was saying that essentially everybody would go down to. I don't know if they call like the parlor or wherever it is, you know, you've got the, the mental imagery of, um, it's like a bar with the stools and the poodle skirts and all that stuff, like pretty grease vibes and all of that. Uh, and she said that everybody around the same age would date everybody and you would be going out with people and you'd be meeting each other and having a great time. And then essentially, uh, at, at the time, obviously it. Little more like quote, unquote, traditional, but then the guy would usually have to do something to essentially court you in a way to be like, okay, now I want you to be with me. Will you accept being with me? But it was never, uh, this kind of like really intense thing or it, it was genuinely a really fun time. I remember my N telling me about it and telling me just how much fun she had dating all these people and how everybody was dating each other. Dating at the time, just spent going out with them, like going to a movie, having a one-on-one dinner, going for a walk, you know, drinking a soda puppet in

Taly
this, or, you know, so I think I've told you this, Laura, but so Doug's parents are a little bit on the older end.

Taly
Like I think they're probably closer to your Nana's age than like our parents' age. And his mom has said the exact same thing about dating, where she, you know, everyone was just going out with everyone would have a great time at, and at one point his father, you know, who was like, Hey, I want. To go to be exclusive to me.

Taly
I wanna, and I wonder if that was a much better time. Obviously there are gender things that have changed a lot since then, and that's been really great, but I wonder if it was a better time for women to date, because there was almost this need for men to be better than one another. This is all talking in, in heterosexual kind of dating world, but there was a need for them to behave better than one another to win the woman that they wanted to be with. Taly
And so it wasn't just, you know, you're going on a date and you're seeing one person at a time and you're getting. Like there was almost like a, it was like, because it was a free for, in a way. And everyone was, was hanging out with everyone, having a great time. You had to be better. You had to step up. You had to really shine in order to kind of ask for that, that permission to have someone be exclusive to you.

Taly
Um, and so I, I do wonder if women have, have lost out on. Some of the benefit of that and kind of entering this a different age of

Laura
dating. Yeah. Oh man. I feel like we have a whole podcast just like dating through the ages. Sorry. Digres no, that we could have a whole other one I think on, uh, cuz one thing that we hear a lot as well is that divorce rates used to be really low. Another they're much higher. And a part of that too is because even though there used to be these great courting processes, sometimes who someone showed, they were in the courting process. That's not who they were behind closed doors. And so there was, um, a lot of people staying in really bad relationships and oh, oh my God. We could talk about this forever. Never. Cause it's so interesting how dating has changed over the times and also culturally speaking, how dating has changed. So I think, um, Correct me if I'm wrong. I think Doug's parents are from the Northeast, right? Mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. And that's where my Nana grew up as well. So I also wonder if they were, you know, dating in the same circles,

Taly
Same circles, maybe maybe.

Laura
Yeah.

Taly
But in any case, I have another question for you. So your bio says that you bring an offline holistic approach to matchmaking and coaching.

Taly
Can you explain a bit more about what that means and what it looks like to take an offline approach to such an, you know, an online world?

Anthony
Absolutely. So when, I mean offline holistic approach. So what I mean is first off, there is no dating app. There is no form of an interface that you have to do a profile choose. Like what's going to be like the best prompts for your dating profile. No, I do all the work for you. So as someone who does all the work for them, I. I'm generally generally saying that I am the human version of a dating app. So first off there is no dating app. There is no website that you have to make your profile. I make your profile. There is no questions you have to fill out. I will ask you questions. You tell me the questions, I'll put it in your profile and I will do all the searching for you. So with dating apps, there are forms of algorithms and a form of ways of how you can connect with people. I do everything in an offline setting to.

Anthony
I go out in the world or I do a form of social media marketing to target the best people for you. I reach out to them myself. I'm not afraid to tell people I'm a personal matchmaker. I think I have someone who's amazing for you. Can I have a few minutes of your time to get on the phone and then I can get on the phone. If they are a compatible match, I reach out to my client and say, Hey, I meet this awesome person. I think there would be a great match for you. We talk about it. If both individuals. Yeah, I would like to meet this person then what I do to keep it more in an offline setting. I do all the day planning. So when it comes to choosing the restaurant, choosing the time, giving them little tips, like, Hey women wear your slim fitting dress.

Anthony
Hey, men wear a good collared shirt with nice dress shoes. And then I set something up very nice. Whether it's small appetizers or drinks or dinner with a beach view, it's something in which it's all bringing back the organic. Part of dating back to where you get to go to an outdoor setting, you get to have those butterflies in your stomach. And then the day after I would follow up with a date feedback form for them to fill out, to see how the date went, if they wanna see each other. And if it is the case that they wanna see each other, again, I encourage them to plan the second date on their own time and see where the connection grows. But if they don't feel the connection, then of course I can vet my client and say, okay, what were some things that I missed?

Anthony
And then I just repeat the process again, doing it this way. It brings the off. Organic dating back to the modern society we are living today. People don't have to worry about the constant swiping on the dating apps. They don't have to fear of, oh my God, why am I not getting matches? If you sign up with a matchmaker, you are guaranteed an offline experience. All you do as the client is sit back, relax, let the professional take control. And if they have a match for you, they'll reach out to you. Plan the. And it's all a very exciting process. And I understand for some people, it sounds too good to be true. And a lot of people say, oh, is that a thing? Do you actually do everything you're saying? And I'm like, yes. .

Laura
So I'm, I'm curious when it comes to matchmaking, what are some things that you keep in mind when you are, uh, finding matches

Anthony
for people? Right. So the biggest things that I always keep in mind when matching my clientele is their core values and beliefs. So these core values and beliefs are values that they've had ever since they were little to where at this point in time, they're ready to go. So for example, marriage, are you looking for getting married or are you looking for a life partner? Are you ready to have kids? Is kids something that you wanna go through the process of the baby, turning into a kid, turning into a teen, turning into an adult. Do you wanna go through that whole experience?

Anthony
How many kids do you want, et cetera. And then another thing that people don't really take into account is spirituality and religion. Are you devout to your religious faith? Are you someone who sees the world in an openly spiritual view? Are you someone who doesn't believe that there is a higher being up in the, up in the universe that we live in? It's important because having those same spiritual values and having those same values, when it comes to marriage and kids, you're dating with an intent for this certain goal. And then another thing that people I take after that is the preferences. And a lot of people unfortunately mistaken the preferences for deal breakers.

Anthony
Mm-hmm, , I've run into a lot of men and women who say, I want someone who's six foot four. I want someone who's petite. Five foot two. I only want blonde, no one fat. And I'm like, I'll put that on your profile, but I can't guarantee that I'd rather match you with someone who shares the same core values than compared to someone who matches all of your preferences lists. But doesn't. Follow the values and beliefs of who you are as a person.

Laura
yeah. It's like who you think you want physically when you're dreaming them up in your mind is often just that it's just a visualization of what you're imagining it is that you want, but that's because the things that really truly matter are not.

Laura
Um, you know, you might have that picture in your mind of like the six foot four blonde doctor in whatever capacity they might look like or five foot two, but then, you know, what are some other things like, do they have kind eyes? Are they giving you like a really good hug? Or, you know, like those are the, the, the things that come out in the real world that you can only really tell by actually being around somebody.

Laura
So I, I find it so funny that, um, That people think that, oh yeah. I can just like, I can just filter people, just like I'm filtering for shoes at Nordstrom for what I wanna pick out for the day. I hate brown color. Yeah. yes. Uh, wide toed, right?

Taly
I think it's, and I wonder if media really plays into this a lot because we see what love means every single day on our TVs and on movies.

Taly
And. Nowhere. Do they really go into any of those deeper things? Like, do we share these values? Like you see them falling in love and it was based on kind of lust at first sight. And then they, you know, cord each other in this weird way, depending on what the movie premise is. And then if they end up together, that's the end of the, that's the end of the, the movie and TV shows are different obviously, but.

Taly
You know, you miss out on all the other stuff of figuring out if you have those shared values, if you want the same things, if you're trying to build a family in the same way, or if you want a family at all. And it's just kind of, I don't know, interesting to think about, I think TV shows now are starting to, you know, address some of these things and you see kind of more progressive ideas of what a family means, but.

Taly
I think we're, we're a little behind when it comes to dating and what we think about, you know, what's important when it comes to partnership. Yeah.

Laura
Can I absolutely, can I share a pet peeve that I see in TV shows? Mm-hmm, a huge pet peeve for me is how common the trope of will they won't they on again, off again, relationships.

Laura
I just, I find them so harmful because they essentially normalize this concept, that relationships, you know, when the going gets tough break up, when. Uh, and then there's a lot of like the cat and mouse game. And I just think it really gamifies an experience and makes people think that, you know, those types of really intense emotions are what you should have.

Laura
And there's a difference between going through the dating and the courting process and then making and building a really meaningful relationship with someone. And so I do appreciate when shows have those arcs that. You know, there might be a little bit of, you know, the cat and mouse of like, oh, I just really want them to get together, but then they don't make them go off and then on and then off and then on and then off and then on again, until they finally end up together long term, because I feel like it leaves people with this anxiety of, well, they were off before.

Laura
Are they gonna be off again at some point? And then I think that can influence how people date and how they think dating should be normalized. So for me, that's a little bit of a pet peeve and I love it when that's not the case. I love it when a couple has a little bit of like, Ooh, that cute. Like the meat, Brooklyn 99.

Laura
Uh, yes. I love Brooklyn 99. There's a little bit of on again, off again in the beginning, but they were just like, I don't wanna be off. I want to be on. And I was like, yes, thank you. Uh, Amy and Jake.

Taly
I, yeah. And I don't know if you're a Brooklyn 99 fan, but ,

Laura
I'm a huge, that's why one of the only shows I will continually watch.

Anthony No worries. No worries at all. No, unfortunately I don't watch Brooklyn. No course

Laura
how

Anthony
you recommend? I, I, I love reality TV. Mm-hmm I know, I know. I just love watching real Housewives. And do you watch the bachelor? Oh, yes. Okay. Oh my God. I just got up in the finale. Oh my God. I can talk about the bachelor. Like, if you want me to ha if you want me for an episode of like the bachelor finale, we can go on and on and talk about like five minutes of like all the wrong. Doesn't watch it. And it makes me, I'm like, no to him about this. Everything that couldn't have gone wrong, went wrong. Yes, but they're together. And I wanna talk about that cuz I'm just like, oh, Ooh. Ah, it makes it made me go like, ah, Ooh. Ah, what, what thetic season finale. Exactly. Oh God, I have something to say about that relationship. Ooh.

Taly
spoiler alert, I guess say, and then I'm curious what your thoughts are. So Laura, just to catch you up, there was, you know, a season finale where there were three women and one of them left because the bachelor was intimate and told the other two women that he loved them.

Taly
Um, and she was basically, you know, basically said that if you love these other people or you were intimate with them, I can't be with you. So she left. Then he continues on to the other two women. Having told them he was intimate with them both and loves them both. It was a whole big dramatic thing where one of them threatened to leave.

Taly
He convinced them both to stay. They met his family and after they both met his family, he was like, no, no, I want the one who left. So he dumps the two goes and gets the one who left. Um, and then tries to win her back essentially kind of soft proposes to her. And she breaks up with him and says, no, I can't do this.

Taly
And then they like, you know, we find out at the live finale that they're actually together. Um, and they like took the time apart. So Anthony, now that we're just caught up on the short version of it, I'm curious, your thoughts. I'm just wondering since, when did this turn into a drama? I felt like I was watching a drama.

Anthony
Just all played out. I feel like every season,

Taly
these past like 10 seasons are all dramas. No, but I could totally see like the finale turn into like a movie, like literally he was like, I'm gonna leave. And then he's all like, I love you and I love you, but yes, I love her. The, and then he's like, and then he's like running to her and he's all like, I love you.

Anthony
And she's all like, but you broke my heart. And then , it's a lifetime movie. And then it's like lifetime movie. And then it's like, and then they do like that whole post, like three years later, right. Flash forward. And then it's all like, Hey, how are you? Oh, I'm good. And then it's. Somehow they end up together by having sex. Like, you know, you know, those movies where it's all, like they talk, they talk and then they just have this big, like, oh my God, no, I still love you after all these years. Like, that's what the fight for you. That's always loved you. That's what the finale reminded me of. I was looking at it and I was like, Like dude, what? what, like, it was so messy. It was messy. And then, and then the finale, oh, turn of the century, they actually ended up together. And I'm just like,

Taly
why? Like, although I will say Anthony, I am very grateful that he did not propose to her in that finale, in that live finale. But even though the Jesse, the host kept being like, so do you have any other final questions?

Taly
Any, anything else? Like, are you, do you have a question you wanna ask her like every three minutes at the end? So I'm grateful that. He kind of read the room and realized that would not be appropriate.

Anthony
Huh? I will see where it goes, but I don't know. I don't see this really going far. Yeah. Only because like, The way that he was like, I love you. And you, after I had like intercourse with you, but the thing is, I love this girl who left and I'm gonna go to her right now and break you two's hearts. Yeah. And then he goes to her, like you said, soft proposes. And then she dramatically declines. And then we find out in the fidelity, it's like, we're giving it a shot. Yeah. And we're just like, Why

Taly
the one that got away, I feel like there's something to, you know, feel wanting what you feel like you can't have, but who knows? I don't know. Um, but I do have a question for normal people now for people who are not on the bachelor. So as we slowly make our way into the, the next phase of the pandemic, which hopefully is the phase where things are starting to go back to normal, you know, fingers crossed and people can date, quote, unquote, normally again, whatever that may be.

Taly
How do you think the pandemic changed the way we look at dating? And what do you think might be different now? Uh, in terms of, you know, how we're approaching another, we're reaching the other side of the pandemic. Great question. I believe that when it comes to the pandemic, because of it, I believe there has been this separation of people wanting something casual compared to people wanting something serious, because I believe ever since the pandemic hit.

Anthony
There has been this rise of virtual app usage. And there's a good reason for that. And there has been a big increase of people wanting to talk over the phone or talk virtually via zoom because of the pandemic. You can't really go anywhere back in 2020. And I believe it allowed people to be upfront with what they want and people don't walk relationships just for the sake of having them. They want to find a right relationship and the right partner. So I believe the pandemic really allowed individuals to. Truly say what they want without wasting the person's time. And it allowed people to be introduced in a number of different ways to where if the connection is still there, they can meet in person compared to people who wanted to look for the wrong intentions.

Anthony
Then you can kind of. Be grateful that you can say, at least I didn't meet this person in person. And at least I didn't have to waste my time just with the constant conversation of it leading to nowhere. I believe that the separation of people wanting to be casual to serious was there. And I believe that it allowed men and women to just be, I believe that the pandemic also allowed a lot of individuals to really. Think about themselves and put themselves first and ask them, what do I want? I can't go anywhere. I'm kind of stuck in my home. It kind of gave them this realization of self-reflection of what's best for me. What's best for. Me moving forward when this pandemic is over with, what do I want? Am I ready to go back out there and date again? Am I needing this time to myself to self reflect or are my values still valid even prior to this pandemic and I'm still ready to go. So I believe there has been a lot of benefits when it comes to the dating scene when the pandemic hit. And I think. What will be different now that we're approaching the other side of it is that I hope that people are just gonna be more straight to the point.

Anthony
And just more honest with what they want so that you don't have to waste the other person's time. So that you can just very comfortably say, oh, I'm looking for this, but I wish you nothing more, but the best. And I hope you find your partner, or I wish you nothing more, but the best have a good day.

Laura
I appreciate that. That's a part of how you're coaching people. And I think that, yeah, it's really all just about knowing what your intentions are and being clear and communicating that. I think some people harness or not harness, I think some people Harbor a fear that if they're looking for something casual, that people will immediately be like, no, no, that's not what I want. So, you know, haha nothing casual for you. And there's a lot of needing to trick people, but. 100%, not the case. There's tons of people that are looking for the same thing. You just, just gotta find them. So I'm, I'm curious, some of the things that you said, I think are fairly applicable regardless of where in the world people might be, but I know you've worked across a number of big cities in the us, and I'm curious if you've noticed any differences in how people date, like specifically, um, or, or as an example, like do people in Los Angeles date differently than people that are in New York city.

Anthony
Yeah. So I definitely, I definitely see a difference when it comes to LA dating to New York city dating. So for people who don't know, I also match make men, women and gain queer men in New York who are willing to date California individuals. So something that I see that's very different is structure and the dating scene structure.

Anthony
So in New York, I even got the amazing opportunity when everything started to lighten up to go to new. It's very different. And I can't really describe it because I wish I had more time because I was only there for a number of days, but people, I like to compare it as walking in New York, people walked with a purpose.

Anthony
They walked first. A destination in mind, whereas here in LA, you're just walking for the fun of it. And yes, I feel like in New York, there's this form of structure when it comes to dating. So for example, I've seen people in New York say like, I'm this, this, this and that. Whereas people in LA is all like, well, I'm this, let me explain more about what this is and why it's very important to me.

Anthony
And it's more so I would like to say. I wouldn't say casual, cuz that's not the right word. I would say it's more flexible here in LA when it comes to what they're gonna talk about where in New York city, it's more structured of, this is who I am. This is what I want. These are my hobbies. This is what I'd like to do for fun.

Anthony
But also people need to realize that the options in LA are more broader than New York in New York. You're more likely to go out for drinks or have dinner. Whereas here in LA you can do. Mostly a lot of things you wanna go mini golfing, go mini golfing. If you wanna go to the beach, go to the beach. If you wanna go to the art gallery that just opened up, go to the art gallery.

Anthony
And another big thing that I also see a difference of is price. . I think the pricing in New York city is a lot more compared to LA and I believe that people have this form of. Way that they present themselves as well. I feel like here in LA, you can kind of dress up how you would like where in New York city, you're more likely to wear a slim fitted dress or that nice collared shirt with a nice tie.

Anthony
But I definitely have seen a big difference between LA and New York. A lot of people have this idea when it comes to dating that no matter what city you're in, although I totally agree that we'll never run out of singles. The reality is, is that the dating structure is not only different, but dating is still difficult to this day because people date with the wrong intentions and knowing that it can definitely affect the way you date, depending on the city that you're.

Taly
That's super interesting. Um, both Laura and I have experience living both on the east and west coast. So hearing your perspective is, is fascinating. Um, but I'm gonna, rather than, than continue this just because of time, because we have questions for you about Jessica and Alex's date. Actually, I'm gonna dive into that.

Taly
I'm wondering if there were any areas of connection between Jessica and Alex that stood out to you during their date?

Anthony
I'm just gonna be very forward and honest it sounded like an interview to me.

Taly
Mm.

Anthony
But when I was listening to the dates and how it went, there were just things that. I felt as though it did, it just didn't hit the mark. Like there were the topics and the conversation was there, but I felt like there was just this form of a disconnect

Taly
mm-hmm

Anthony
so what I mean by that is I like how the conversation kept going. And I like how they both kept asking different questions and wanting to know the other person's perspective. But I think that there were just things that it just sounded more interview- like compared to like a genuine connection. So for example, like. I don't know who it was. I don't know if it was Taly or Laura, but one of you started off the date with what's the greatest gift someone has ever given you.

Anthony
I think it was something in which you could have said anything and it kind of didn't really hit the mark, to where Jess had this amazing answer in a way of like having this cat for 18 years made me realize this. And then when she asked Alex, oh, like what type of book are you reading?

Anthony
He was like, oh, I'm reading this book, so the next question... and like I said, I understand also that this is first day jitters. They're both nervous. They're talking to someone new. And it's a very different way of talking and having this form of a date.

Anthony
I believe that the jitters got to him and I believe he didn't wanna mess it up. And. He really did put in an effort to continue the conversation, which I loved. He kept on saying, what about you? Oh, like, what is it about traveling that you like, do you do it for the culture? Do you do it for the sighting? I was like, yes, you're telling the right questions, but why are you not telling anything about yourself?

Anthony
Like I felt like when he brought up the book, I'm like, well, explain to Jess what the book is about. And if you would recommend this book.

Laura
I think there were definitely some moments of, uh, interesting word choices and I it's so interesting. Not everyone is everybody's cup of tea and there is someone out there that is, um, gonna really appreciate that.

Laura
Like for them, they're gonna be like, oh, I'm glad that you told me that because, uh, you know, I don't know. I just, I think that there's, I dunno, I think that there's good ways that you can kind of connect with people and like that level of honesty so early, and like that lack of a filter will definitely work for somebody.

Laura
And I, I, I say that. And so if my parents are listening to this, please know that I love you very much. Um, but my mom is a little bit like that. She doesn't always have a filter when she says things. And, uh, it's just kind of it's, it can be really funny. And I know my dad finds it really endearing because she has so many other, uh, also incredible qualities about her.

Laura
And so I just, sometimes when I hear certain things that won't work for the masses, I'm like, it's okay, because unless you're doing something that's like egregious or like wildly offensive, uh, I feel like there's definitely a good match for everybody out there. And it's just a matter of, uh, being open to finding and making that connection.

Laura
But, uh, so I have another question. So if they did match, let's say that they did, uh, we're not saying that they are and they ultimately met up in person. What advice would you give them for building their relationship offline?

Anthony
I feel when you're building a connection offline, you shouldn't judge a person on their flaws as well.

Anthony
You should learn to love those flaws as well, because that's what makes a person them. And you can't change that. So I feel like if there is a flaw that you have, you should own that flaw. And if someone likes that flaw, at least you now know, oh wow. Someone likes me. For all the good and the ugly and that's amazing. Anthony
I'm not encouraging people to be all like, go on the date. And don't have manners. I'm just saying, go on the date as you. And if you felt as though there was a moment where you thought you came off wrong, or a moment where you thought that you weren't a lady or a gentleman, then, you know, just apologize here and there and say like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

Anthony
I do like, it's weird. Like for me, like what I do that I'm doing right now, I stutter and I overthink, but I say like, Hey, like, can I just start that over again? Sorry, like that's just me. And then y'all are saying like, no, it's fine. It's okay. And I'm just like, okay, cool. You know, so yeah.

Laura
I think people really get into our own heads a lot about how we come off or what we say and, and some people don't and they probably should, but yeah, I completely agree that. We, I think are much more critical of ourselves than other people are of us. And acknowledging that shows that we're human, which is great. Um, so we are bumping up against time. So we've gotta do a speed round of questions here to wrap up Anthony million dollar question date in the blank. What did you think? Do you think that Jess and Alex matched and why or why not? Okay. So I think the reason why. it didn't oh my God. I'm being on the spot. It's like, I feel like my job's on the line. If I say the wrong thing and it's a different outcome. I personally don't think it was a match to me. The day came across a little bit interviewy and although I can understand that people get the first day jitters on the date and it's something in which.

Anthony
Oh, like I, and there were, there was wording that was like, definitely, uh, I just felt as though when they were just talking to one another, I didn't really feel a connect. Like she would say moments out of like sarcasm and laughter and he'd be all like, cool. Okay. but yeah, I, I don't, I don't wanna say like they don't, they shouldn't see each other again, because I'm pretty sure this was.

Anthony
A voice chat date. Am I? Yeah, correct. Was their first date. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't wanna say they shouldn't see each other again because I am a firm believer. An in person experience, you get to truly see a person's vibe and you get to see a person's mannerisms and how they act in person. So I don't wanna say they shouldn't see each other again, because this was a different form of dating.

Anthony
And I am a firm believer of in person dates compared to virtual dates. Because when you see someone in person, you get to see and see their en you get to feel their vibe and see their energy. So although, and then I'm also a firm believer that you can be a good dater. But good. Daters don't equal good partners.

Anthony
So I don't wanna like play both sides, but basically what I'm saying so that we can cut so that we don't have to have me rambling on. Although I think the date was amiss. I do encourage them to give it a try again and see what will happen in person.

Laura
So I appreciate that. You said that. Um, so I actually I'm in a similar boat. I think that, uh, I don't think that they wanted to go on a second date after that one. And, and that's not a bad thing. Uh, just not, not having a vibe with one person is totally expected. It's just a natural part of the dating process, but tally. So what happened date in a blank? What did, uh, what happened?

Anthony
Yeah. Am I writing. I don't know if I'm ready. Ready, general.

Taly
Uh, you both were, um, your instincts were correct. They did not match there. Wasn't a connection for both of them. Uh, and so they did not go on, we did not share their information and for them to continue the conversation,

Anthony
I could keep my job, everyone

Taly
you can keep your job.

Taly
Okay. So we have two final questions for you as we wrap. Uh, question that we love to ask all of our experts. Do you have any quick words of wisdom or advice for our audience besides all of the wonderful things you've already shared, be open-minded to the dating process? A lot of people feel as though that if you try your hardest you'll get results. But the reality is is that dating takes patience and you need to have patients in order to see the results, whether that is three days, three weeks, three months, four months, five. Know that your person is out there and take your time with. But parallel to it, have fun. Dating is supposed to be fun. You're connecting with someone new and overall you should have fun with the experience, have an open mind and see what is possible for

Taly
you.

Taly
That is wonderful advice. I love it. And as our final question, uh, and before I actually ask you, I wanna thank you for all of your advice and for joining us today. But as our final question, how can our audience get connected with you?

Anthony
Thank you so much for having me. It was such an honor to be on your episode of date in a blink.

Anthony
So how people can connect me is by three different ways. So for anyone who wants to connect on Instagram, you can find me. At Anthony Koppe, that's at Anthony C a N a PI. And if you're interested in being matched by me, you can DM me single to get started for all my gay and queer men out there who are ready to find something real. I am the founder and head Cupit at best man match making and LA. Matchmaking and dating service designed exclusively for gay and queer men who are tired of being the best man and are ready to be the groom. You can find me on Instagram at best man matchmaking. That's at best man matchmaking, and you can click the link on the BA. You can click the link on the profile to schedule your free 30 minute consultation. Or the third way you can connect with me is through best man matchmaking.com by clicking the contact button or getting started by clicking the get started button.

Taly
Awesome. And I will include all of that in the show notes, show notes for anyone who's interested in, checking it out or connecting with Anthony. [advert]

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re hosting Jessica and Alex for a Blink Date!

Taly
Modern dating sucks. But it doesn’t have to! Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you’ll listen in on 10 minute voice-only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It’s time to stop collecting penpals and start, oh, I don’t know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating?! Is that even a thing anymore?! But for real, dating should be fun! We hope listening in inspires y’all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we’ll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our hand-picked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after ten minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out!

Laura
Before we jump into today’s Blink Date, here’s a quick word from our sponsors.

[sponsored content]

Taly
Today's date prompt comes from THE AND, a card game by the Emmy Award winning studio THE SKIN DEEP, designed to give people a little more space for a lot more openness, honesty, and vulnerability. If you want to start asking bigger questions and get to know someone beyond the surface, check out their decks at shop.theskindeep.com/. That's shop.theskindeep.com/, and use code BLINK10 at checkout for 10% off your order!

Taly
We're here in Date in a Blink today with Jessica and Alex, I'm gonna let you two dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question: What's the greatest gift someone has given you, and why?

Al
Oh, I'll go first, I guess. Do... the greatest gift. I am. I'm a big fan of books. So like, I feel like if someone gives you like, a book, like, that's, that's kind of a gift I, I give people if like, I read a life changing book, I'll give it or I try to give to someone. But yeah, how about you?

Jessica
Um, so my greatest gift would probably be I got a pet cat. Years ago when I was a kid. And she was an early Christmas present for me. And I still have her today like 18 years later. So probably like the greatest gift with learning responsibility and also acquiring that pet ownership. But definitely agree with the book aspect. I recently read a book and I keep like passing it on to people because it was really helpful.

Al
Oh, really? What, what book was it?

Jessica
Um, it was called Ladies Get Paid. So it's all about negotiating and career advancement. So it like kind of helped me navigate career changes and figuring out what I wanted to do.

Al
Okay, okay

Jessica
What's your favorite book?

Al
Do you... right now, I'm reading a book called About Face. It's pretty good. But yeah, I I like business books, too. Those are interesting. And I like cats, too, I'm actually thinking of getting one. What type of cat do you have? Just a stray cat?

Jessica
She's a little tuxedo. So little seven pound tiny cat.

Al
is like the process of like, owning a cat hard? or not really, because you just have like a litter box, right? Like to train them to go on that is that hard?

Jessica
I would probably not be the best person to ask since I was a little kid when she was going through that. But I would say they're pretty easy, especially if they're an older cat. Like, I love having a senior cat because it's like you're saving an animal that might not be as likely to be adopted, but also they're much more tame and easier.

Al
Yeah, cats cats are cool. Cool creatures. I mean, they're because because you don't like take care of them like a dog. You know, you you have to like, like, get down and dirty with it. But but a cat's isn't bad. What what other I guess pet would you would you want if you could have like any pet that was legal to have?

Jessica
I would probably do like a dog or something like that. I tried to do a second cat with my cat and she wouldn't allow it. So just kind of like pacing that out. But I did have a roommate that had a flying squirrel once and that was kind of fun to see. But it was nocturnal. So I'm not sure if it was the best pet to have in a small apartment. But how about you?

Al
I got— a turtle would be cool when I, when I think about animals but a flying squirrel. That's that's... is that like, legal to own? Do you keep it outside or inside?

Jessica
Ah, I'm not entirely sure because I think it was off of Craigslist. But it wasn't my pet. But I remember it was very rambunctious.

Al
Yeah, I had an uncle once who had a like a ven— like an eating cactus or like a plant that like eats flavor or, uh Venus flytrap! Uh, I forgot the name of them for a second but yeah, we would like to stick our fingers in when we were like, younger and like pull them out quick, but um, was pretty crazy. Like all all like the animals out there in like a plant that like eats stuff. That's pretty crazy. What —

Jessica
That is crazy. The only plants I can keep alive is an aloe plant and a bamboo plant. But I've killed like 10 basil plants. So not the best with plants.

Al
Yeah, plants. Plants are tough to know, know a lot about them. I feel like, I feel like it's more than just like, like you have to know when to water it how often and yeah, just sunlight, I guess? It's not too hard. I guess cats cats and plants are both pretty easy if you think about it.

Jessica
Yeah, I think the only difference is I need my plants to let me to water them.

Al
Yeah, what other hobbies do you have?

Jessica
Uh, so mainly one thing I'm really trying to do a lot more of is traveling. I went on two solo trips this year and then also travelled to visit a couple of friends while still trying to be safe within all the COVID guidelines. So just kind of exploring more places and seeing both coasts of the US. How about you? Do you like to travel?

Al
I wish I, I love i like to travel but I don't do it often just because I'm kind of broke right now. But I just like was looking at something about like the National Parks and it was pretty interesting. I haven't into many, but there's pretty crazy places in the US. Where were your solo trips to?

Jessica
I did a trip to New York and then I also went out to LA but that was mainly to visit a friend. And then a couple of group trips in between, but I definitely use one of those rewards credit cards for most of them. So that always helps goes go a long way.

Al
What type of stuff do you like, look for when you travel or, like more like, um, like different cultures to experience or just like sightseeing?

Jessica
Yeah, so I'm definitely more of the one person that likes to explore cities and see different areas. One thing I always get curious about with people, if they're more of a laying on the beach, just like chilling in that environment or someone's like more of a an exploration type of person, like if they want to see see different museums or see different artifacts.

Al
Yeah, I'm probably, I don't know, like, I'd like to lay on the beach, of course. But it is pretty cool to go to museums. That's that's not really like a hobby of mine. But it's just cool to like, see different museums, like seeing like dinosaurs or something is kind of cool, I guess, dinosaur bones or whatnot. What did you do on the trip, did you, um on the trips, just kind of sightseeing, hanging out?

Jessica
Yeah, so a little bit of sightseeing. I joined two travel groups that are for like solo travelers that I would have people to meet up with in the different cities and kind of get their experience. But I like to be like a really social person on trips. I try to talk to basically anybody. So that's usually my goal. But you mentioned that you are thinking or like national parks, is that, do you like hiking? Or what draws you to that environment?

Al
Yeah, hiking in like, like the crazy mountains that are beautiful, and like trees and whatnot. And I also want one of these, like, some foreign places to be cool, like, are on my list like Taiwan and China, France and Spain would be cool. Do you, are you into foreign, like, travel at all? Or trying to keep it domestic?

Jessica
Yeah, so originally, before the pandemic happened, I really wanted to do a domestic travel year and then a foreign travel year, and it kind of all got pushed back. So now I'm thinking about my next like international trip, and considering like going out to Bali, and maybe Australia, those are ones that are on my list, but I also know that that would probably be like my one trip that year then since it's so far away.

Al
Yeah, it's like a, like a 12 hour flight or something to Australia or something. Probably.

Jessica
Right. So and it's like expensive to get there. But then I've heard once you're there it's a little bit better. So trying to like figure that out.

Al
Yeah, there's there's something about like traveling that kind of just lures you in just like you know that you could like kind of like go into a whole different place and learn like completely different things with, within a different culture. I, I've been daydreaming of like, just starting over in like a new country or something but you know, that would not be good. I wanted to take a trip to China before the pandemic but then I decided not to because you know COVID and China relations, it has like Cov-COVID affected like the solo travels like like, I feel that if you went on like a like a solo travel people will be like less less friendly because of COVID? Did you experience that?

[“Smooth” sound effect]

Taly
At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

[sponsored content]

Taly
We hope y'all enjoyed hearing [name] and [name] date today. We love sharing a window into people's love lives. And since we know you love it too, you should check out Dick Tales, a podcast all about Sex, Dating, and All the other Things. Listen as Carrie and her guests detail their disastrous dating stories and sexual mishaps. We hope you love it as much as we do!

Taly
Did Jessica just say her roommate had a flying squirrel as a pet? Say what?! I’m obsessed with squirrels, so this tickled me endlessly. Jessica and Alex seemed to share some interests, including books and travel… but was it enough to make them want to continue the conversation? Tune in next week where we’ll chat with an expert about the date and reveal what happened.

Taly
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re joined by expert love coach and international speaker, Diana Eskander.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink dates? Or when they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

[advert]

Taly
So let's dive in.

Taly
So a quote from your website that we really loved was detachment feels like a surrender. Almost a deep exhale, while attachment feels like a contraction, taking a deep breath that you don't release until things go your way. And I think as humans, we often associate attachment with something positive and associate detachment with something negative, like the person who seemed awesome until they randomly ghosted you.

Taly
But in this context, that's not the case. So do you mind explaining a little bit more about the concepts of attachment and detachment as you're using them?

Diana
Yeah, that's a beautiful question. And it's true. We do think of detachment as kind of being like disassociated or avoidant. I really mean it from a more spiritual place in this, in this context. And, you know, attachment is like, we're really attached to an outcome and we're gripping on for dear life. Like we're really wanting to control how things go.

Diana
And typically that'll actually really get in the way of, especially if we're talking about, let's say building a connection with someone, like that intensity of wanting something to work out so badly, has you questioning everything you say. And really not showing up quite authentically, right? It's like really with this, like it's a means to an end.

Diana
And the end, let's say, is like, hoping this works out, hoping this turns into a relationship. Detachment, like healthy detachment is: I'm going to lead with intention here. Like I want to send this message or I want to do this thing because this is what feels aligned for me. This is what is aligned with my values and, you know, release control of the outcome.

Diana
And I can think for example of, when Jack — Jack is my husband — when we were dating and we were about eight months into seeing each other, and it wasn't, it was going so well, but it wasn't clear where we were going. And so I had the conversation with him about, you know, this is how I feel about you, and this is what I would love to see for our connection.

Diana
And that's where I have to detach from the outcome so that I can actually truly give him space to tell me how he feels. But when someone can feel the pressure of like, oh my God, if this doesn't work out, I'm going to fall apart.

Taly
Mhmm

Diana
Like, his reaction to that would either be to say something he doesn't really mean to like help hold me together or completely want to avoid the conversation.

Diana
Does that make sense?

Taly
It does.

Laura
Yeah, it definitely makes sense to me. And it reminds me towards the end of when I was single and still dating, I feel like I had made a similar shift and transition from, or, are really embracing this concept of detachment. Of course, I didn't know that's a way I could think of it but that's essentially what I did. And it was beautiful because it really allowed me to, I think, have better relationships and ultimately opened up to find the person that I've been happily with for quite some time now. And so I'm curious, what advice would you give to our listeners so that they can shift their mindset from an attached space into one that's more detached?

Diana
Well, a couple of things, you know, like I, I'll share this mantra sometimes and some people resonate with it, others don't, but um, it works well for me when, when I'm wanting anything, right, so I'll be like… this, or something better. So if this specific thing doesn't work out, then I choose to believe that it's because something better for me, not that this person isn't great, but something better for me is on its way.

Diana
Right? So it's this like, trusting, and so you're not holding onto: it has to absolutely be through this person or, you know, this place or this situation. It's like this, or better can really help to shift the perspective. And also to remember that: You, too, are a catch. And that was something that I really noticed was different when I was dating Jack. I was like, I was really aware that he was an exceptional catch and that I am too. Right. So it's not this, like, I need to prove myself. I need to make sure they see my value and want to date me. It's like, I'm just going to leave space for us to explore. If this really is a fit for both of us.

Taly
So I have a follow-up question on that. So hearing you talk about how we can think about, you know, if this doesn't work out, there's something better out there for us. And I think that's a really healthy way to approach it. But I think in today's age with swiping, there's this feeling of, there's always something better.

Taly
If I just keep swiping, like the grass is always greener. So how do you think we can dance on that fine line of having a healthy connection to that feeling without kind of dismissing people too quickly? Because we always think that there's, you know, the next best thing, if we just keep swiping.

Diana
Yeah, so, okay. That's a good question. What I mean, when I say this or something better is like, you are, you are going in with the intention of exploring this connection authentically, right. So it's not about like, oh, whatever, I'll just find the next best thing. It's like, I'm going, I'm curious about this person.

Diana
I'm curious about this connection. I'm going to explore it and I'm not going to stay. like, I'm not going to grip with control because I know that if this doesn't work out, that I'm going to trust that it's because something else is meant for me and something else is meant for this person. So again, the key piece is that, but I'm exploring this with intention and like, I am open to this connection, right.

Diana
Versus like, oh, whatever, I'll just like, move on to the next.

Taly
I think that's absolutely. Yeah. That distinction is really, really great. And I think even just, you know, the intention and the authenticity, like that might be a little bit missing in some scenarios. So, uh, yeah, that, that's a really great distinction. Thank you.

Taly
So another thing that was on your website that I think is worth talking about is the concept of our inner child.

Taly
And I would love to hear more about what that is and why it's important.

Diana
Okay. So the, oh my God, I love the inner child and we do it. And I do so much with the inner child in my work, because it really is that important. We have grown up in our physical bodies. Yes. But inside of us always remains this version of us that likes to — okay, let me just say our inner child is not all bad. Let me just say that.

Diana
But there is this version of us that hasn't fully grown up. And part of that is beautiful, right? That's like if we access our inner child and how we were as children, we might find some of our innate gifts and strengths and like that natural, not for everybody, but that natural like joy. And there are the fears and the wounds and the tantrums and the ways of relating.

Diana
Right. So if you've ever observed children, let's say when they don't get what they want, for example, they might throw a tantrum or get really, really loud or kind of get outrageous in their behavior. And that can often, like, if we don't acknowledge that there's a part of us that exists like that. And there's a part of us that shows up in a relationship like that.

Diana
Like we can throw adult- like tantrums or whatever, you know, kind of approach we used as kids. We either witnessed and others, or we learn to use to get attention if we're not aware of those and examine them and, and, you know, evolve. We will bring that same approach when we get triggered in relationships.

Diana
And then what often happens is like, let's say now you have two adults living together who have unexamined inner children. Then you know, my inner child can trigger that of my partners. And so now you have these like two adults arguing as children, and it's not conducive to, you know, adult decisions that we often need to make together for example.

Taly
I think it's really interesting. I was thinking about this recently in the context of family and how we can revert to that inner child in the context of our family. So thinking about it and, you know, relationships, it just really.

Taly
I think it makes you realize what a deep impact it can have on us throughout our lives. Um, in any case.

Diana
absolutely. And there's this, um, she has a psychotherapist and she talks a lot about conscious parenting. Her name is Dr. Shefali Tsabary. She's brilliant And she says, every child asks these three kids. Do you see me? Am I worthy? Do I matter? And if you just take a moment to reflect on your own experiences, I can for you too.

Diana
And for anyone listening, I can guarantee you there's been a moment inside of your romantic connections where you asked one, if not all, three of those questions. Right. So who do those questions really belong to? It's like this innocent version of ourselves that is still seeking to be loved in the way that we've always wanted, even if you had excellent parents, right?

Diana
There's no such thing as perfect parents. And so there's these parts of ourselves that are still always looking for that validation and the seeking of validation can really sabotage connection. If we're not honest about, oh, Hey, there's this part of me that sometimes gets insecure. It's not about abandoning it, but just being aware of it and being honest about that, it does exist.

Taly
Right.

Diana
Yeah.

Laura
Do you think that people, when they're kind of oscillating between those questions in a fight and argument, or, you know, creating that type of tension, do you think that people have self-awareness like, let's say someone who hasn't really done that work or someone who's starting to do that work. Do you find that it's easy for people to notice this in themselves so they can stop themselves? And, and how do people typically, I guess when you're directly engaging in a conversation with someone acknowledge that,

Laura
I don't know if that question makes sense though…

Diana
Well, I think I understand, like how do you even, how do you be like, like, like people can people become aware of it and try to shift it? Right. I think question

Laura
Yeah, especially when you're really in that triggering moment, because I know sometimes I will know people and even in myself, sometimes if I'm feeling really anxious about something or I'm really good at acknowledging my emotions with one person, but it doesn't always translate to somebody else. And I'm just wondering, do you find that people have a hard time, I guess, acknowledging that in that moment and being able to recognize it because are you, are you familiar with, um, what is it called? The critter brain or SCARFing as a term?

Diana
No. I mean, like are you I kind of talking about the amygdala, the lizard brain?

Laura
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lizard brain. That's what it is. I was like, I knew it was some type of something in the animal kingdom…. Yeah.

Diana
And that's exactly what happened. So, you know, we can't talk about inner child work or even consciously relating or being in healthy relationships without having an honest conversation about nervous system regulation, because, yes, in the moment where you're feeling triggered or really upset, and, you know, your amygdala is activated and you're in a fight or flight response, it can be really challenging.

Diana
And that is why like doing our work either on our own or with support of a coach or a therapist or groups, you know, is really essential for our continued evolution. So we can, we can really have this like support and continuing to bring awareness like, oh wow. When I responded in that way, at that time, that was my inner child responding.

Diana
That was my fear responding. So absolutely like one of the things that I'll do when I'm feeling triggered is actually just take a moment to call it out to myself and say, I'm feeling triggered right now. So whether I say it out loud, I might do, or I might even say it in within myself. Well, what that does is actually buy me a moment to breathe and make a choice about how I want to respond.

Diana
Also, knowing that whatever response I'm going to have in this moment likely is skewed by the fact that I'm feeling highly triggered, then learning to, you know, take deep breaths and ground your feet and notice your body and anchor — if you're sitting down like anchoring into your seat or touching the chair, like there's all these ways that take an exceptional amount of practice to ground yourselves. So that in that moment, we're responding with our wise mind, like the prefrontal cortex and not the amygdala.

Laura
Ooh okay. I'm curious. And, uh, you don't have to share this if you don't want to, but do you have a specific body sensation when you're in those moments that help act as like a trigger or a trip wire for you for when you feel that way?

Diana
And I, by the way, I'm open to sharing all the things all

Laura
Okay. Love it. Love it.

Diana
Yes. For me often it'll be like a rising from like the pit of my stomach, kind of like rising up through my chest. And so that, and that's often when I'm working with people, we'll ask them like, you, where do you feel the trigger? And if they don't know, like starting to, become aware, like what happens in your body that lets, you know, you're being triggered, you know, for some people will be like their face gets really flushed or their shoulders get really heavy or their head starts buzzing.

Diana
And if you can start to bring aware of that awareness to that, and then saying to yourself, I'm triggered, you know, it's that moment where you then get to make like the choice instead of reacting. How do you want to respond?

Laura
I could probably talk about that all day with you because I'm very interested in it. I find it very fascinating, but I want to shift gears a little bit and transition to something else I think is really beautiful on your website. So one of the first things that I noticed there was you have this statement “Rise in your feminine.” Can you tell us a little bit about what this means and why it's so significant?

Diana
Yeah, absolutely. So knowing, first of all, I do work primarily with women. I think that that's an important distinction, although the feminine lives in everyone and can live in it, everyone. So does the masculine. The feminine energy is really one that is so not passive. Right? So we, we kind of have these like skewed versions of what it means to be in masculinity or in femininity.

Diana
I'm not talking about being in a passive state, but the healthy, feminine feels relaxed enough to actually like lean back trust, surrender, observe, take things slow, receive. Right? So there's this, I focus a lot on receiving because we — I've observed, I'll say it that way — in a lot of women and actually on almost all of the women that I've worked with over the years, which is at this point, like really hundreds, maybe close to a thousand, is this idea that we need to give, give, give in relationships and they'll, you know, then I'll hear them say things like, well, I'm just nurturing and nurturing is actually an essence.

Diana
It's not an act. Nurturing is not in giving or doing, nurturing is a way that you feel and a way that people feel around you. And so when we can actually like, if you, if, if anyone listening to this, regardless of your, you know, your sexual orientation, if anyone listening to this desires, their partner to be more in their masculine.

Diana
And we want to think about like the yin and yang and the balance, and it requires you to leave space for that person to take that role. And that's going to mean you being more in your feminine. And if you don't understand that concept and it is a really big concept, you know, like we could do like a whole, we could do a whole series on this.

Diana
It could feel triggering if you don't understand what that really means, because it has, again, it's not a passivity, it's like being in the space of... I don't need to control and make things happen. It's like, rather than having this target that you go after, which is more of a masculine energy, you actually get to just lean back and enjoy and observe the connection and receive what's happening and make decisions as you go. And when you, when you can lean back enough and trust enough that you do invite the masculine to step up.

Diana
But what I see is a lot of women taking that masculine role. And being frustrated that in this case, let's say the men they're meeting aren't, aren't taking it. Does that make sense?

Laura
It does make sense. I'm curious. Is there, um, do you find that the reverse is also true? So let's say if there is someone who identifies as a woman wants to actually step into their more masculine energy and they want their partner to have more feminine energy is the reverse kind of, is the reverse true in that case? So in order to allow someone to step into their masculine energy, it requires kind of taking that step back and I'm sure there's a lot, a ton more nuance there. Is it the, uh, yeah, I guess I'm just curious. Is it the reverse —

Diana
So I think it is really important to mention that there is a ton of nuance right there and yes, the, the, the reverse is absolutely true. It's again, it's the yin and the yang, right? So you desire to be more in your masculine, for example. You would say, you know, you would imagine as that part, like let's say It's the black part of the yin and yang.

Diana
And so you're like 70% in your masculine and you have your 30% feminine that circle in the middle. And then you invite the other side to compliment you or vice versa. You want to be 70%, I'm using 70, but, um, you know, it's arbitrary. It's the majority, right? So 70% in your feminine and that circle in the middle is your 30% masculine.

Diana
And that doesn't mean that that's how you have to operate in all the areas of your life. But if we're talking about polarity and relationships and like what creates that attraction And almost that like tension in a good way, is that balance between the energies. And that does not mean you're always, always, always in the feminine, there are moments where, you know, you are taking on more of the masculine energy, but the idea is like, If you want your partner to be more in that energy for you to know that you're going to then occupy the other space.

Taly
I was going to ask another question on feminine, feminine, and masculine energies. Uh, cause you write about it in your blog, in connection with creating spaces, charged with certain energies. And I feel like that's sort of going along with what you're sharing now. And in that post, you wrote something about your partner that really stood out to us. And it said to, when it comes to creating something you desire, he, quote, “loves to learn how to do it best and take his time assembling the pieces in his mind before he assembles them in real life,” unquote, and it demonstrates a kind of care and attention that we all could probably benefit from. So I'm curious if you could share a little bit more about how do you think creating space in relationships allows for this, or, you know, in connection with the feminine and masculine energies, how you think about that and creating space?

Diana
Yeah, Yeah I love that question. So another way to think about the feminine and masculine that I think can be helpful here too, is like, if there's a desire, that is a true heart's desire. And, and again, these things take time to like really feel the difference between is this a desire that my mind thinks I should want, or is this a desire that comes from a deeper place?

Diana
So let's say it's, it's coming from a deeper place and it's the heart. Your heart has this desire. That's where we, we can see the heart is kind of the feminine leading the way and the masculine being the mind coming in to say, great, how can I provide this desire for you? Let me put together the pieces so then if we apply that model to let's say my relationship and I have this desire, that's coming from my heart and there's something I really want.

Diana
And I bring it to my partner and I'm like, I really would love this. And he's like, great. Okay. But I, and, and, you know, he's gonna pull together the pieces to make it happen in this case. I wasn't, I think I was specifically talking about like home rentals, which he's really, really good at, and there's something I really would love to see come to fruition.

Diana
Like it just excites me to think we could have this specific type of special paint or whatever it might be. And he's like, okay, great. I want to do that. What becomes key there for me and my work is to lean back and give him the space I know he needs to start to like, learn about the process and get excited about the process and feel confident in it, competent in doing it.

Diana
And then he's going to create it and make it happen. And I've learned that about, about him specifically, right? And so it's, there's this space and inside of that space is so hard for us because we have to have trust that something's going to come to fruition. And sometimes we have lots of evidence that it won't, right?

Diana
But it's the space of, let's say, giving someone the dignity of their own process or the space of allowing your partners to be on their own journeys too. Like you might see me mention that piece a lot. Like let him be on his own journey too. Um, it's the space between, let's say question and response. Right. We, we typically want things right away.

Diana
Like if I ask you a question, you know, I want to know what's your answer. But sometimes it means allowing space of days, even weeks for the person to mull it over and reflect on it, especially if they haven't considered it before. So there's this whole idea around space, you know, how much space do we take from talking about problems? How much space do we take from thinking about our partner or, you know, this new person that I've just met, that I'm really excited about how much space do I take from seeing them or talking about them? The concept of space in relationships just continues to blow me away. Like when you really become aware of what feels like too little or too much, and you kind of dance with it. I, I it's like a critical piece in creating healthy relationships

Taly
It's interesting. I feel like, um, Laura and I talk about this a lot in our relationship, obviously we're not in a romantic one, but we just think about things very differently. And when share ideas with each other, I think often we forget that we have to give the other time and space to process it in their own way.

Taly
And so it's really interesting to hear about you talk about it because I can see it in relationships, both romantic and partnerships and other forms. Um, so that's really beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

Laura
Yeah. It's like, it's amazing. It's such a simple, but nuanced and deep topic on how, how impactful conversation is into all of our interpersonal relationships. And I just find it funny how sometimes we're willing to apply certain... I think nuance to conversations in the workplace and in relationships and not always in both. So I love, Taly, that you kind of brought up that this is also applicable in more than just a romantic relationship, obviously, depending on what the nature of it is, but I just think it's really beautiful to see what those connections. look like

Diana
Yeah, and it absolutely relates. And it's kind of like if it's almost the same thing, if you bring it back to the masculine and feminine, it's like one is really good at numbers. And the other is really good at marketing and you both want to really like mostly take those roles and sometimes dabble in the other.

Diana
But The one who good at marketing is always like nitpicking at the numbers and focusing on the numbers. It's like, you're not giving the space for each person to shine in their gift. Right. And like, it's that compliment that makes it work really well.

Laura
Yeah, I love that. And speaking of compliments and, uh, first dates in this case, so curious, transitioning a little bit to Ruby and Elliot's date What were some moments when you felt like they really hit their conversational stride? Uh, or if you didn't feel like they did, what do you think held them back from hitting a conversational stride?

Diana
There were a couple of moments. Like at first I found it was more Elliott. kind of It almost sounded like interviewing Ruby at the start. And then there was a point where they actually just like, rather than the focus, being him, asking her questions, which is nice, you know, he's showing interest and curiosity.

Diana
They were doing more of a back and forth. It felt like after the halfway mark that they were just kind of like actually deflecting and not deflecting, but asking each other questions and reflecting back to each other

Laura
Yeah. I noticed that as well, especially with the, um, it's so interesting that you say that it seems a little more like an interview the first few minutes, and then the second half with a lot more, I think natural and free flowing. I think for me, I felt like the beginning part was, you know, like the awkwardness the jitters, trying to, you know, get to know someone and do that little dance.

Laura
It's a little bit of small talk. And then the second part of it, when they were talking about, you know, a shared mutual interest, like just hearing that animation in their voice and how I think it shifted the energies of the conversation was, um, yeah, that was pretty great.

Diana
And there was another part to your question too. I mean, I have a couple of remarks,

Laura
Yeah. Yeah. We'd love to hear them

Diana
so yeah, I mean, at first it felt like it, the focus was more Elliot asking Ruby questions and again, Like it takes Like so much empathy. It takes time to like, get into that, like conversational stride with someone you don't know. And it can feel like a little bit of pressure.

Diana
Um, what I found was good was when they started to ask each other questions, I found. the end Ruby, you could see, like she was being herself. You could sense that she was comfortable. She was talking about like, you know, the thing she did, like she didn't like, and she was just letting the conversation flow.

Diana
Or I felt like there could have been some room for like more connection would be like to. How do I say this? Like a little bit more warmth in almost like flirtatiousness could come in, if it, if they felt the connection, you know, to maybe give someone a compliment or say, oh, I really liked that. And you sounded really cool or it sounds like you're really interesting, or, oh, I love that we have some of the same interests, you know, just to kind of like bridge that gap and actually feel connected to the other person versus just like, kind of like, what do you like, what do I like? What kind of terrains? You know what I mean?

Taly
So that's actually a great, uh, comment. It leads me to our next question, which we still want to hear if you have more, more thoughts, but despite the obvious constraints of time, did you feel like Elliot and Ruby were able to use their 10 minutes in a way that enabled them to better understand who the other person is?

Diana
It was very focused on, I mean, I'm who the other person is. I mean, I don't think that that can really truly be done. I felt the Ruby , uh, showed more of herself in the conversation than perhaps Elliot did. Uh, but in all fairness, I think he was trying to keep the focus on being interested in her and what she had to say. Uh, so I mean, I thought that they did a great job at kind of talking about things that are actually interesting versus. You know, small talk. It was like they actually got into their interests, but there was a sense of, again, it is only 10 minutes, but there was a sense of like, just like a little flare missing.

Diana
Um, there was like moments that felt more serious where they could've just been a little bit playful and maybe reflected to each other, something that they liked about each other. But in, in terms of, you know, showing who they are, I think they did what they could in the short period of time.

Laura
Mmm that kind of leads to the million dollar question. Date in the Blink, what did you think? Do you think that they matched and I'd love to know why or why not?

Diana
I think that they matched in terms of interest. I think that Ruby was showing a bit more spunk, uh, then, um, Elliot, however, I have no doubt that Elliott given more space and time would show more of himself. So I actually think they, they like it deserves a second chance for sure. and

Diana
I always tell people like, you know, on the first date, and this isn't even a whole first date, right? the only question you really want to answer is: Do I want to see this person again? Right. There's nothing like you don't want to ask these really big questions about like, could this be the person for me? Like, that's a lot of pressure, but just like, is there something there that leaves some curiosity to want to see or talk to this person again?

Diana
And I would say in this case, based on like, just all the, you know, intersection of their interests, absolutely.

Laura
yeah. Yeah, I just want to do a big plus one to everything you just said. Um, there's only so much you can glean from a 10 minute first date with someone. And so I love that you boiled the essence of everything down to, uh, do I want to see this person again? And so my thoughts on it are very similar to yours.

Laura
I, I did think that in terms of matching, I definitely thought that they would want to continue the conversation because at a minimum, there's so. many Well, not so many, but there was at least a few highlights of shared interests that I think could really keep a conversation going between them. Uh, but Taly I'm curious, we're curious. We got to know! Did, or what did you think? Did they match?

Taly
So I wasn't sure if they would match, um, after the da-date beause I think sort of, to what you were saying, Diana, they talked about similar interests, but they didn't seem to, you know, pierce the, are we interested in getting to know each other further beyond our mutual interests because mutual interests are, you know, a great thing to bond over, but that isn't necessarily the foundation of a relationship. Like a long-term one, you need a lot more than that. So I wasn't sure, you know, from their perspective, if that was enough to get to the second date or second conversation, it turns out it was so they did match. Um, it didn't seem like it went very much further. We do email them afterwards and we didn't hear back from both parties, but it seems like maybe it fizzled out.

Taly
We don't have a ton of details, but after the initial date that they did, um, match. So. You were both right. And had, uh, you know, pretty spot on instincts.

Taly
And, uh, as we wrap up the question, we love to ask all of our experts. Diana, we're wondering if you have any quick words of wisdom for our audience, besides everything you've already shared.

Diana
Yeah, sure. I guess I should be, keep it focused to kind of like that initial, connecting that initial connection? I think it's really important to just like open your heart to the experience that it's not just felt like, oh, I'm going to meet the person and that's going to be my person, but it's like connecting human to human. Right. So like, if you can go in with that, perspective again, it takes the pressure off. Like you don't have to meet the one. I don't believe there is only one. Right? And it's like, if you can keep your heart open, like, all I'm doing tonight is connecting to another human. I think it really just like allows for the potential to exist and really like for the potential to exist, we do need to release the pressure.

Diana
So, yeah. Allow this to be an outlet, you know, an outlet of possibility of where you can possibly meet someone. And remember that you're just talking to another human.

Taly
That's my favorite approach to dating and, um, it's, you know, removing the pressure, just remembering the, that key question you mentioned earlier, like, do I want to get to a second date? Not, is this my person, my only person, the one.

Diana
Yeah.

Taly
So much more fun and reduces that pressure, like you said. So that is perfect advice, I think.

Taly
And as a final, final question, how can our audience get connected with you

Diana
Hm, thank you for that. Uh, well, a great place to start would be my website. So DianaEskander.com Um, I share a lot on Instagram as well. So, um, DianaEskander and then from there, you know, you can always send me a message, say hello, and I can tell you a little bit about where else you can find me, but that those would be great places to begin

Taly
Awesome. Thank you. And thank you again for chatting with us today and sharing all of this with us. We're so happy to have you and so grateful for your wisdom.

Diana
My pleasure. Thank you.

[advert]

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re hosting Elliot and Ruby for a Blink Date!

Taly
Modern dating sucks. But it doesn’t have to! Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you’ll listen in on 10 minute voice-only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It’s time to stop collecting penpals and start, oh, I don’t know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating?! Is that even a thing anymore?! But for real, dating should be fun! We hope listening in inspires y’all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we’ll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our hand-picked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after ten minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out!

Laura
Before we jump into today’s Blink Date, here’s a quick word from our sponsors.

[sponsored content]

Taly
We're here on Date in a Blink today with Elliot and Ruby. I'm gonna let you to dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question: If you were immortal, how would you spend your life?

Elliot
That's a good question.

Ruby
Honestly, I wouldn't know if I would want to be immortal. But if I did have to spend my life doing one main thing, it would definitely, definitely be learning as many instruments as I can, and playing music, and maybe doing like a one woman band or something that would be awesome.

Elliot
Wow, that's really cool. What instruments do you play?

Ruby
Um, I play the flute. I play piano, I play guitar. I would love to learn how to use my voice as an instrument. But otherwise, I would consider myself my voice to be very untrained, then you would know the minute you hear me singing in the shower.

Elliot
Yeah. That's super cool. I like that idea of using your voice as an instrument, like Bon Iver.

Ruby
Yeah, I mean, it is. Yeah, it's definitely like a muscle that you can learn to rein in, which I think is awesome. I mean, obviously, some of us are gifted, like Whitney Houston or something like that, like right off the bat. She knew how to control her voice. But um, yeah, and that's the cool thing. I think with playing music and playing instruments is that technically speaking, it's, it's something that anyone can learn and develop that ear for, and I think the heart for so that's probably what I would spend a good portion of my life doing it if I were immortal, which... Jury's out on whether or not I'd want to be.

Elliot
Yeah, no, I agree with you. That makes a lot of sense. That's interesting. How long have you been playing...? I guess I can answer the question too. But I also want to learn more about your experience playing instruments.

Ruby
Yeah. Do you play anything?

Elliot
No, I don't. I used to play guitar. Means... I haven't done that since probably 10 plus years. But, I loved it. I'd love to get back into something eventually.

Ruby
Yeah, to me. And playing music is also super meditative. Almost, I've tried meditation. And I just, I hate to say it, but I just get really bored. And I know, they say like, Oh, if you think of other things, like, just let that thought float by, and I'm super bad at that. So but to me, like, what I realize is that I kind of get in the zone. And I stopped thinking about anything else while I'm playing music of any sort. And I love, love, love jamming with other people, good or bad, just to kind of, yeah, it's my favorite part. So it's really like, it's, I think it's beautiful, because it's something that you can do on your own. And have it be like a meditative experience, you know, practicing or just playing something that you love. And it also builds community because you can, you know, reach out to other musicians and bond with them play together. So I just want to, I think it's one of the best things ever and like, actually have a friend who is learning to play piano. So she's probably going to learn to read music and all that. So to me, it's like another language basically, that you can really get into. So yeah, maybe this year, you pick the guitar back up again.

Elliot
Yeah, I think so. Especially if I'm immortal, and I have all the time that I would need.

Ruby
That's exactly, exactly. Yeah. And like, if I were really immortal, I probably also maybe start writing my own songs. You know what I mean? Like you have all the time in the world. Yeah, so that's actually now that I'm like talking out loud, that's for sure the thing that I would do and dedicate my life to, my endless life if I were immortal. Yeah. What about you?

Elliot
Never. I mean, keep going forever. I think for me, what I would want to focus on is I'm really into hiking and hiking up more and more higher mountains instead of more difficult, really summiting higher and higher mountains. That's what I would like to dedicate my life towards. I think that that would be a lot of fun. If I was an immortal, at some point, it is the highest mountain in the world. I don't know how you top that. But then I'm sure—

Ruby
You do like the highest one. And then you like try to beat yourself like, Okay, I did that in nine hours next time I'm doing it in eight.

Elliot
Yeah, yeah, or do a different route or yeah, you can always return to it. But I think that right now is what I would want to focus on. Because just in my regular life, that's what I'm really into. So it'd be cool to have all the time in the world to just focus on developing all those different skills and getting out there and doing it.

Ruby
That's cool! What was the last one you did?

Elliot
Yeah. So I live here in Colorado. I don't know the last... So we've got a lot of 14ers. Those are mountains with with Fort— over 14,000 feet elevation. I can't remember the last one that I did. It's ski season right now. So that's—

Ruby
Yeah,

Elliot
Yeah, I've been mostly put my time.

Ruby
Oh, nice. Do you ski or snowboard?

Elliot
Yeah, I ski How about you?

Ruby
I snowboard.

Elliot
Oh, hell yes, that's great. I uh,

Ruby
Yeah,

Elliot
Um I'm obsessed

Ruby
there's um

Elliot
how long have you been boarding?

Ruby
I, I'd say like probably started in middle school or something like that. But there was a lot of snow that ended up in Tahoe in the past few weeks. So me and my sister have been making it a point because it, you know, we haven't been able to see each other as much yet to head out there and, and hit the slope. I like to joke that I'm the Shaun White of the family and she's the Chloe Kim. but now that Chloe Kim is like becoming like a thing like, now I kind of want to be her instead. But um, it's so cute too, because they're all these kids now who feel seen, you know, seeing Chloe Kim on YouTube or whatever. And they were telling me the instructors there when I was chatting with them or telling me that like a lot more kids now are like, Oh, I wanna be Chloe Kim, like Shaun White is totally, like, faded out. All these girls are coming up and be like, I want to be like her. So they're like taking snowboard lessons.

Elliot
That's super cool.

Ruby
But yeah, but anyways, that's cool. So, um, what was like your favorite mountain that you've been on?

Elliot
Yeah, so I spend most of my time I bet the Icon Pass, I spend time in Copper, Winter Park. A lot of those resorts right off I70. And Tahoe is one that I need to spend some time at. I'm just started planning some ski trips here to check out like Taos and I definitely need to add Tahoe to the list. I saw that you got tons of snow. I'm glad that we finally have —

Ruby
Yeah. Yes, no.

Elliot
— snow now. What type of terrain you'd like to board?

Ruby
In terms of like, what kind of course?

Elliot
Yeah

Ruby
Like, Oh, well, black diamond obviously

Elliot
Drummers, Blue Black

Ruby Ruby
Black.

Elliot
Yeah. I guess if you've been doing it since middle school, then you definitely can handle anything.

Ruby
Yeah. Yeah, if the threat of breaking some bones isn't there, then I'm like, why even? Just kidding. But I did hear from a friend that, um, I have a colleague of mine who's based in the Netherlands. And he was telling me because, you know, they're like, they don't care about us over there. So they don't know anything about Tahoe, or any of you know, going out to Colorado or anything like that. But he was saying that the best place to snowboard out there is going to the Alps. So I don't know if maybe you put that on your list. But that would be one spot that I'd love to hit up. And my sister was actually telling me that actually, apparently, in Japan, there are also some really good places to just snowboard or ski. So

Elliot
yeah, that's what I've seen

Ruby
Take it international.

Elliot
That is definitely on my radar. I think the Alps would be incredible to ski. And what I think is really interesting is they have totally different ski cultures there, too, when you

Ruby
Yeah

Elliot
go to Europe and Japan and other places outside the US. So I think it'd be so much fun to get out there and explore. Alaska, too, that would be a really fun place to ski. Yeah, how about you? Any Colorado resorts?

Ruby
So I haven't been out to Colorado that my cousin's been going off there more and more. The thing that, okay, the thing that gets me about snowboarding though, and like these winter sports activities is like, I mean, it's not the cheapest hobby to have in the world. The best where, it's like, I mean, I guess going back to the question, like music is one of those things, especially if, you know, I could learn to sing or you know, like rein that muscle in like, I could take that with me anywhere. You know what I mean? But um, but that's the thing. So just trying to find time and money to head out there, you know, because then you got to think about like flights and logistics and all that. And I don't know where you live, but I'm in California. I don't know I'm supposed to say that or not for the for this recording, but um, but at least with Tahoe it's like a couple hours drive so I can you know, do a day trip or something like that if I ever wanted to.

Elliot
Yeah, that's how it is with me. We've got probably a two, hour and a half drive to the closest mountain. We need to wake up early. It's a full day thing because you gotta beat traffic, but that is how it's accessible. I went skiing for the first time last last year, and

Ruby
oh, wow!

Elliot
Definitely obsessed with it now.

Ruby
That's awesome!

Elliot
I got 10 days so far this season, hoping to get 30, and

Ruby
yeah, yeah. And then like,

Elliot
California, right? I don't know how far California

Ruby
Yeah, it is. It's um, that's more near SoCal.

Elliot
Okay,

Ruby
and so if you live in like LA or San Diego or something like that, yeah, it's a good one to go to. I think that's the one that Shawn White goes to to train I'm pretty sure

Elliot
Okay

Ruby
But because I'm further north, Tahoe is the spot for us.

Elliot
That's great. It's really cool. I just found out that people live in California you can get to experience the mountains, too, just seems like you're able to experience everything California.

Ruby
I know. I am not going to pitch California too much here but like drive couple hours in any direction. You get the beach. You get Yosemite, I don't know have you done Half Dome? that would probably be on your list. If you're immortal. Like I would love, love to do Half Dome

Elliot
Oh, me too! I haven't been but Yosemite would be amazing.

Ruby
Oh, you haven't been! Oh my gosh, you have to go it's absolutely beautiful. And yeah, you hit that, have to be on your list. And Half Dome is like, now they have like a waitlist to get on it. So it's not the easiest thing in the world to do. But that's that's one where again, there's like a little bit of a threat to your life there because it's—

[“Smooth” sound effect]

Taly
At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

[sponsored content]

Taly
I loved hearing how Elliot & Ruby would each spend their lives if they were immortal. I don’t know what answers I expected, but it definitely wasn’t “learn to play all the instruments” and “climb all the mountains.” Their answers said so much about each of them and it was sweet to hear where they had overlapping interests.

Do you think they’ll climb a mountain together some day? Tune in next week, when we’ll chat with an expert about their date and reveal what happened!

Taly
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly

Laura
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re chatting with dating coach Barry Selby.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink dates? Or when they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

[advert]

Laura
Barry Selby is a passionate champion for the Divine Feminine, helping strong, successful women create balance in love, life, and business. He's on a mission to awaken women to own and express their feminine majesty in love and in the world. He helps his clients heal their hearts, sourcing their own inner support and love, so they fully embrace their magnificence and help them attract relationships that equal who they really are. As a relationship attraction expert, Barry is affectionately known as the Love Doctor to his friends and his clients. With more than 35 years of training and experience in the personal development arena, including a Master's degree in spiritual psychology and over 22 years as a spiritual counselor, he has helped thousands learn to love themselves and live in wholeness. His number one best selling book, "50 Ways to Love Your Lover," help singles and couples embody powerful principles for passionate and richly rewarding relationships. He's an in demand inspirational speaker standing for love and healthy romance and deeply passionate relationships. He brings deep compassion, gentle masculine presence, and wise guidance to assist his clients and their journey to true love. Thank you so much for joining us today on our podcast Date in a Blink, where we'll talk a little bit more about your expertise in the dating and love space, and we will also talk about Shea and Albert's date. Thank you for being here.

Barry
It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for the invitation. And yeah, let's have some fun with this today.

Laura
Yes, wonderful. On your channel, you talk in depth about codependency and a handful of symptoms that go along with it. We want to touch on a number of these. But before we dive into all of that, could you explain to our listeners a bit about what codependency can look like in a relationship?

Barry
Um, certainly, I mean, I'll explain from my perspective, because there are different camps, I'll say that have perspective on codependency being actually healthy, and I disagree with that. So let me be clear, this isn't my perspective, I mean, not the way the world works. However, a lot of times we are caught up in the romantic dream, sometimes a nightmare, that when we find that special somebody, they'll take care of all our wounds, and we feel better, and they'll make us feel much better. And we'll be all happy and everything will be great. Interwoven into that, and unfortunately, is the sense that somebody else is accountable and responsible for us feeling okay. The quote I use from Jerry Maguire, which is "You complete me," this is my favorite to go to because it's so easy to explain the syndrome, so to speak, of like: I'm not complete until you show up, which is what codependency is really about. And that is a trap because none of us are incomplete. And what really a relationship is for me is, is when two individuals are not facing each other nose to nose, you can't see any other way you're going for side by side going the same direction and codependency is that first one where you're basically almost dependent, hence codependency, on how the other person treats you. The gauge is how you feel. And oftentimes what happens in codependent — any relationship where it's — not always just romantic, but any relationship, we'll tend to blame the other person for our upset, or we will make the other person feel bad because they didn't make us feel good. This interwoven network of emotional blackmail and frustration is all because of codependency. You know when when when something happens when your partner says something that triggers you. However, you don't react to it, not because you're forcing yourself to, but because you just go oh, that's them not me. That's a clear idea of stepping out of codependency. Because oftentimes what we do is we carry grudges against somebody else because something they didn't do or did do or said or didn't say, that made us feel bad. The problem with that perception is that it isn't the other person that made us feel bad. We felt bad because something that happened. And that simple switch frees us from being dependent upon somebody else's treatment of us. You know, the Philistines describe it as when you move out of reaction into response to what happens, you start to free yourself from the codependent trap. Does that help or is there more to... need me to explain?

Taly
I think that helps you just maybe it's just I do love that quote or that anecdote, the "You complete me" line from Jerry Maguire, it's, you know, used so often, despite — and — and people don't really think about what it means. So I really appreciate that perspective.

Barry
Well, yeah, I mean, pretty much every, I mean, every love story, movie and most love song, love stories, songs, has a thread of codependency in the lyrics because there's something about being in a relationship, that somehow you need to sort of settle down with somebody and fall into the relationship versus stay true to yourself and have somebody meet you where you are. And they'd say to themselves at the same time, ultimately, for me, that is my own choice. I've been single for quite a long time. That being in relationship isn't about me giving up anything. It's about adding to what I'm doing and that is a much healthier approach which is not codependent.

Taly
And follow up question. How would you recommend someone recognize codependency? Because it... You make it sound so simple and clear, but I imagine for people who are actually in that in that cycle, it can be really hard to recognize, so what are some tips you might have around that?

Barry
Well, if you're single at the moment and longing for somebody come along like a knight in shining armor to show up and save you. That's a clue that may be just a smidge of codependency in there. But also, if there's things you're waiting to do in your life, and you're waiting someone to show up, now I don't mean only things like, you know, family, kids, because that's a different story, but it's like, when their partner shows up, then I'll go and do this thing in the world just like... why wait?

Taly
Right

Barry
Because if you do it now, or you're in the process of doing it now, you might discover your meet them when you're on the path already. And so there's something about living a full life living a whole expression once were single. That is, one, it's needed, two, it's more attractive, because you're not just sitting, waiting, actually participating in the world and being a value. The thirdly, you'll be demonstrating to your partner what you're looking for, by the way you're acting in your life.

Taly
I love that so much. I know there are so many people who are like, Oh, well, I can't travel, I don't have anyone to travel with. That's probably the biggest one I hear. And it's... you can travel, you can travel alone, you can travel with a friend, you can do all sorts of things you don't need to wait for, like you said, the knight in shining armor, or I don't know what the equivalent would be on the other side.

Barry
When my queen shows up, or something like that. Also, you know, this is one way before the pandemic. I love taking myself to movies on my own. And some people look at me and go like, you're weird, you know, you should only go with people. I'm like, Why? Because then you've got to move on my own.

Taly
Right?

Barry
If I wanna go to the bathroom, I don't have to worry, about disturbing my partner. But there was no way— that I can do what I want. I can you know, and the great thing is, to be honest, when I go see a movie on my own. I don't have to explain things to anybody else, I don't have to ask anybody questions, that I get interrupted, so these are benefits to going on your own. And yes, I understand international travel, when you're single woman may be a bit more challenging. But if you're doing that, take a girlfriend with you, go together with some other friends that aren't romantic. And do something like that. That's easy enough.

Laura
I think this segues really nicely into our next question. Because sometimes I know in relationships, and even just in some friendships, if you see somebody that you're close to doing something without you, it might build up a layer of resentment. And so I think resentment is one of those things that it can come up in so many different ways, not just in this idea of being with someone who is, is independent and does enjoy doing things on their own. And in one of your live streams, you break down what resentment is. And at one point, you describe it as being a way to retain feelings of judgment, while also preserving our sense of being a good person.

Barry
Oh, yeah.

Laura
So I'm curious, what, what is so satisfying about holding on to judgment towards, towards those who have hurt us? And why does this sometimes feel more satisfying than forgiveness?

Barry
This is fun. We, as human beings, we are wired in such strange ways, the way we feel good about things, there's, there's such a st— and, I'm sure this, I'm not a psychologist, you know, a background in spiritual psychology. But there are people out there who would probably break this down as a clinical description. But I speak from more of just the philosophy viewpoint I have understood. First of all, resentment, one of the one of the metaphors or ways of describing resentment, is taking poise and expecting the other person to die. So first of all, when you say that you get the feeling of just what that means by resentment is like you're you're somebody else, that somebody else hasn't got a clue that you're even upset meanwhile you're carrying that upset feelings inside yourself, which is being negative and having toxicity toxicity within our system so physically for your health, resentment doesn't add to your benefit, your life and enjoyment. So if you can get a resentment is better. So that's one reason why forgiveness is important. The second part, to speak to your reflection when I said, in one of my live streams, is that resentment is the other side of the coin to guilt, as in guilt and resentment are both similar vehicles, tools we use in our lives. And what they were used for, is a way of separating who we are from what we think or what we do. And what that means is that we, deep down inside, believe we're good people. And when we do something bad, I speak in the guilt side for a second first, we do something bad, we have this difficulty to correlate the bad thing with a good person. So the only way we can keep that logic intact, so to speak, for our brain is to basically think we're guilty in between the two. So when we feel guilty for doing something bad, that's natural, ultimately, because when a bad person has a bad thing, they don't care, but a bigger business a bad thing, they feel guilty. It's kind of natural. And what it is, is this ability to maintain the inner state of being a good person with the outer experience of doing something bad. Resentment is the same thing except externally referenced, where we judge somebody else, versus judging ourselves. So with resentment, what's happening is that we see something out there in the world, I, maybe a partner or a family member, or somebody close to us, and if they do something heinous. Maybe they scratch the car, I mean, something, something really abhorrent, but the thing is, we know deep down the person is a good person. I mean, it sounds strange to say this, but even with the way the world is now. I believe innately within each of us. We recognize that people In the world are generally good. They do bad things, but they're generally good. And it's that separation of what they, who they are, but, what they do that that needs the requirement of resentment to honor both pieces, so to speak. It's like allowing both to coexist when good people can't be bad. So the sooner we can allow badness to happen with good people, it's have resentment as the buffer between the two so to speak.

Laura
I was listening to a book this morning. And it was talking about kind of exactly that with what you're saying in terms of people's motivations, and what sorts of things do and don't motivate them. And there was something that you were mentioning, oh, sorry, the thing that this reminded me is that they were talking about some really famous gangsters and mobsters from the early 1900s. Like they mentioned, Al Capone and a couple of other people, the book is a bit older, it's, I think, 50 years old at this point that I was listening to this morning. And it talked about how, when interviewing these people in these correctional facilities who have committed pretty objectively heinous crimes, they all believe that they were doing good in the world, and that they were doing something righteous, or that they were doing something that created some layer of goodness in the world. And so they themselves, they don't view themselves or their actions as them doing—having done any wrong, because to them, even though, you know, murdering somebody is objectively not a good thing. These these people when they're interviewed, and they're on death row or about to, you know, serve out a life sentence. It really gets to what you're saying before, which is that, you know, people inherently are good people. And they view themselves as doing good things. Even if from an outsider's perspective, there might be a layer of being delusional with that you know, depending on what the case may be? Yeah, so I just— what you're saying. It just... it really kind of hits me a bit, and it feels very relevant based on what I was, you know, listening to on my car ride this morning. And I just thought it was really fascinating how this is coming up twice in one day for me. So yeah, thank you for for sharing that. And getting into more detail. I just wanted to share that little anecdote.

Barry
Yeah. Well that's the thing is that there are people out there who do horrible things, but think they're doing the best thing. I mean, some of the biggest figures in history, you know, killed millions of people, 1000s of people. But the name, the reason they're doing it was to save their people or to honor their country or do something to make their people happier or safer. So the price for them was worth it for what they were going to benefit. And this is the thing is this. There's discord inside of it. How do you justify that? And so yeah, the gangsters definitely had that. I don't want to say altruistic, but some of them had this viewpoint that what they're doing was benefiting other people. It wasn't just for them.

Taly
Very fresh, in my mind is both Tinder Swindler and Inventing Anna, I don't know if either of you have seen either. But both essentially cheated people out of a lot of money. And it's interesting, you know, to think about the perspective of the person who's perpetrating these things, and how they could potentially justify it.

Barry
Well, the thing that also you gotta read into that is also people's personality styles. Because most of us, I would like to think, have compassion and care for other people. Or somebody doesn't, they may think it's normal to do what they did. And that's the thing is that it's important when you get to know people to get to know if they really do feel, that they do feel honest, they fele humble, they have vulnerabilities, they have a sense of respect for other people, because that's gonna give you guidance when you're dating as well, because you don't want to date a Tinder Swindler, for example.

Taly
Right. Yeah, I saw the movies, it's quite a presentation. You'd think that the codification and law against doing something would be enough of an indication that something isn't normal, but maybe that's just the lawyer in me, saying they should have known better, if only, but getting back to resentment? Generally, I'm wondering if you have any suggestions as to methods that somebody can use to begin moving past feelings of resentment?

Barry
Yeah, the big one. I mean, I do a lot of work with forgiveness in my work, because coming from a spiritual background, I do a lot with forgiveness because it is one of the vehicles that we don't tend to use very often, other people look at forgiveness and go, well that's just something simple as religious or something else like, No, forgiveness is a methodology to release the judgments and guilt and blame and all that stuff we carry inside that keeps us locked into those limiting patterns. Forgiveness actually isn't, is a, is a health benefit too. Because we're not carrying that toxicity in our system. By releasing it using forgiveness, we actually get healthier. So it's actually healthy, so to speak, although I don't know if a doctor would assign you know, take 50 milligrams of forgiveness every day. Again, this is a tool that I recommend, I've used it myself many times and I have a workbook I give my clients and I do a lot of work with this with my clients is give us something that you do when you can move into a place of compassion for yourself. Because forgiveness itself is a phraseology, it is a word level expression, but doesn't have any impact unless you have the emotional energy of compassion with it. So when I work my clients and in the workbook I get my clients I talk about how you when you get to a place of understanding and oftentimes sadness from what you've been feeling about what you did or didn't do. But separately, separate you from other people. You sense that feeling in that moment that energy can shift from, from sadness or hurt feelings into compassion, because you're just not caring for yourself. And that position of self care and that, that sense of compassion you have for yourself is a vehicle through which forgiveness can really stick. And when you, when you do forgiveness it isn't forgiving the world, it's forgiving yourself for judging the world, so to speak, or forgiving yourself for what you judged you did. Because the thing is, you can't forgive actions because they're already done. They're history, it's over. It's complete. What you're forgiving is all the energy you have a tie to that action, which is called judgment. So when we are doing forgiveness work, what happened has happened, you know, I'm not, I'm not religious person. And you know, Jesus, in the Bible, though about, you know, Vienna, seven times, seventy times seven, or whatever it is, and turn the other cheek, well, the thing is, with forgiveness, you don't turn the other cheek, what the forgiveness is you forgive to let go, but you don't forget. So what happens with forgiveness is you become stronger and healthier and whole again, because you're not carrying the wounds inside, and you're letting go of the toxicity. But the other part is, you're so very aware of what happened as a fact of life not as a judgmental experience. And so you look back and you go, Oh, I remember that. Now. I won't go there again. But again, it comes from a place of response versus reactivity, because you're no longer caught up in the judgments, the blame, the resentment, all that stuff, you're just going, I see what happened. And we're not doing that again. So forgiveness, forgiveness is this simple, but elegant and very powerful tool to use to release yourself from judgment, from blame, from forgiveness, sort of from resentment, or from guilt or any of those things.

Laura
I think that's a really beautiful way to explain forgiveness and the power that that can have. And I feel like that can be so much more impactful beyond just feelings of resentment to that this sense of self compassion, of entering the space of forgiving yourself and and recognizing your limitations of what you can and can't control, what's within your power and what's not. There's also a sense of, I think, freedom in that freeing yourself from harboring these really toxic emotions and really carrying them with you. So, man, I feel we could talk about that for a very long time.

Barry
It is a multi tool in the sense he wrote a very true Yes, because I think it's because basically, put it simply, again, forgiveness is what releases judgments. And judgments may not be in resentment or guilt only, they might also be about the way you drive to work or the way you got your boss treat you or anything else. So yes, forgiveness is a very powerful multi tool, working with judgment and all sorts of areas of life. So absolutely, it's more powerful. And yes, we can talk about it for hours,

Laura
Multifaceted. It's like the Swiss Army knife of emotional tools. Shifting gears a little bit here in one of your videos, you ask a very sobering question, which is, do you want a partner or a project? And I think this is a question that can be so difficult to be honest with ourselves about and one that can become especially difficult when it comes to someone who you deeply care for. What's the difference between viewing a relationship as a project and simply being a supportive and loving partner?

Barry
Ooh, so many pieces to this puzzle. Um, what I mentioned earlier about the codependent piece about you want to be doing what you're doing the world and being there for someone to join you on the path. Those people are not projects, when somebody and I should probably self disclosure here. I did do this in the past relationship where I was the project. So I know what it feels like when the other side of it. And ultimately, I felt like a burden. And also my partner didn't respect me and being the guy who was a project wasn't a pretty picture ultimately, the relationship it went down the tubes pretty badly. So having been on the, on the project side of things, it's not fun. The thing about projects, and this is the, the challenge is when you care for somebody, but then they aren't stepping up being responsible for themselves, then it's not your job to carry them. However, it may be your job to refer them to somebody who can work with them, where it be a therapist, Coach, guide, something like that. In relationships, you may fall in love. And this the challenge also, the project idea, the same thing applies like you fall in love with their potential. And that is dangerous. Because you're presuming that what you see in them is what they see themselves. And also what you see in them is something they're going to take action on.

Taly
Or something they want to be.

Barry
Yeah, it was like, Are they, can they see their own potential, and are they gonna take action on it. If they're working on something and they're already on the path to success, so to speak. That's a project in motion. That's something we're working on. That's really cool. And that can be fun, wonderful. As long as it looks like they're really on it and they're not just presenting good image because that's another thing that happens people do present a good show, so, definitely understanding that this person that you're with, because I wanted to say, we're probably all works in progress. None of us are perfect so we're all works in progress to a degree. But it's like, are we works in progress? Or are we roadworks not going anywhere? And so knowing the difference is key. So when you meet somebody that is doing their work and working on themselves, and isn't there yet, you know, that they, things are working on the goals, maybe they set up a new business, or they're changing their home life, and you see them in the middle of that transformation. That's a, that's in motion. That's, that's good. You may want to get involved at point, you may want to wait till they've got past that point, it's up to you. But when you're, when they're making, when they're planning this big project, and then they're not taking any action toward it, that's not going to be very effective. And true with the other parties with this project is sometimes you meet somebody who hasn't done their own work, has not healed their past emotional wounds in the part relationship breakup, whatever that was, it's not your job to be the therapist. And that's one of my big ones I talked about a lot. And, and the change from me being, being having as much experience in life as exp— and relationships, as I've had, I will not date anybody who has not done their own work, because I don't want to carry that burden, that's too much of a project to take on. And the truth is, if I do that, they're not my partner anymore more, they're my client. So it's vital that we all do our own work that we choose to not just sit there waiting for someone to come on and save us again, the Knight in Shining Armor isn't going to come to save us, it's not the position to be in, you want to be already riding your own horse in that way. So beings being home, doing the work you need to do, whether it's seeing a therapist, read a book, go to a counselor, a group program, whatever it is, to undo whatever stuff, you're still carrying baggage, what are you gonna call that, so you're free. And already living the life you want to live. We have this challenge again, also about, you know, when the person shows up, then I live my life, it's like, why not live your life now, then they show up. I think we did it backwards for a long time.

Laura
I really love that you mentioned that when you're kind of doing the work for a partner, they become your client, I feel like I always hear it in the phrasing of a parent-child relationship. And I really like this, this perspective, the way you've shared it of not parent-client, but rather, you know, or not parent-child, but rather as a client or a clinician. And I think that, that's a that could be really powerful way to also help people make sense of the difference in the dynamics of those relationships. Because you, if you don't have healthy modeling, I think from your home life perspective, you might think that being that person for somebody makes sense. But when you view it from a clinician to a client perspective, it's, it's very clear where those boundaries are, because you're like, what, I'm not trained to do those things, you can't be my client, because I am not a clinician. And that I think is easier for people to make that distinction. So I like that, thank you for sharing that.

Barry
You're very welcome.

Taly
So you talk a little bit about how we each have to kind of work on ourselves. And in some scenarios, in a relationship, you know, somebody might be working on themselves and be making, they're kind of attaining a lot of personal growth, while the other person might feel like they're falling behind. Is there a productive way to approach that sort of scenario in a relationship and a way to preserve the relationship as a whole while also preserving your personal progress?

Barry
Yeah, that would "preserve" gets me a little bit amused. The thing is, when when we are going in the personal development, growth field, let's just, whatever they call it, we are changing. So we're not staying the same. So things will be different. In my, in my book, I have a chapter about what it called the rubber band, rubber band in relationships, is then and this is one of those keys that when you're in relationship with somebody and one of the partners, maybe the other person starts to follow a, follow a new course maybe it's your, you're the person whose app you're developing, growing, you take, your start and take a yoga class, or you're doing some Buddhist teachings, or you're doing personal growth seminar, you're reading some books, or you're taking a course or whatever it is. And your perspective on life is shifting, you're growing, you're developing who you are. And what you're noticing is that the difference between you and your partner is changing that there's a gap growing between the two of you. So when, there's, like, this, and like a rubber band, or there's tension on the rubber band, because you're you're sort of somebody's growing further apart, because you're developing and the other person isn't, at one, at some point, there's going to be a lot of tension, there's going to be basically one of three things can happen. First of all, the other person will see what you're doing and will see how maybe, how happy you are, or how successful, how fulfilled you feel and saying okay, I want some of that. How do I get that? And they step up and they follow maybe the same teaching, maybe a different teaching, but they end up being on the same level as you. That's all well and good. That's great. That's wonderful. That's the ideal The other two options aren't so good though, one of which is, that you've started developing, growing, you've, you've elevated so to speak beyond your partner, not in necessarily superiority, but certainly in awareness or growth, whatever that is, or healing, look back at your partner, and recognize that the love that you have for them is more important in your own journey. And you'll actually start shutting down again and get back to where they, where you were. It's rare, but it does happen once in a while. The third option, which often happens to, and I've seen it many times, is that your development path becomes more important to you than the relationship. Because the relationship isn't changing, the person has become static, they haven't moved. And so the relationship ends, because you need to be free and step on and you're actually, not really somebody who's already done their work or is doing the same path, or is doing a parallel path you go, that's the sort of person I want to be with. And then the person who left behind, they may then wake up, I've seen that happen as well, but it's too late, oftentimes. So that other person may wake up and go hang on a second, I need to step out of my own comfort zone or whatever, call that and step into learning and growing, becoming more of who I can be. You may not get the same person back, but you'll be a better person because of it.

Laura
Shifting gears a little bit to Shea and Albert's date specifically,

Barry
Sure

Laura
What were some communications strengths that stood out to you in their conversation?

Barry
To be honest, I think that he seemed much more forward thinking and sharing and opening, talking about the, with, with the kids and his, especially with the challenge kids. He was like, almost, almost like a cheerleader for them. He has such a heart in what he was talking about I love especially listening to it as a person listening to it. I don't know if she got it as clearly as that. I mean, when when he talks about his dog, she was on board, you know, rescues, like she's so so jumped into that. But when some of the kids, it didn't, I didn't feel her so as in interested or invested at that moment. So I'm, I was watching the difference between the two. I mean, they're both they both come from LA, the both local. So they both have common ground to speak from. But getting their goals to be aligned, because he wants he's going to contribute more and participate and make an impact. She wants to travel more not there's right wrong with either one. But it just noticed that the differences that may or may not fit together.

Laura
We just have a couple more questions for you. And then we'll let you go.

Barry
Okay, thank you.

Laura
If Shea and Albert matched and decided they wanted to meet in person, what advice would you give them from moving forward?

Barry
I would say they've already built some rapport, through the call which is wonderful on these, I love people talking with to get to know somebody a bit better. So build on that. So you've already built some connections, some understanding challenges one over to play with. Secondly, continue being authentic. It sounded very in the audio conversation, it sounded extremely real and present and vulnerable. And I said do more of the same. The challenge sometimes when we go and meet in person, we put on a shield or a mask, so to speak. And I would say just be honest and open and vulnerable and enjoy where it goes.

Laura
I love that. And I also really enjoy the visual of removing the ma— or, the mask feels off when you're having an audio conversation. That's one of the beauties about a voice connection is that it does allow you to engage in this more vulnerable side that you might not when you feel like you're putting on a show. So I just I think that's a that's a great reminder for people that when you do take it to that next step, you keep that layer of authenticity and that vulnerability. It's scary, but it's incredible the types of relationships that you can build by, by engaging in that side of it.

Barry
It's so worth it. Absolutely, yes.

Taly
We're gonna jump to the million dollar question and the million dollar question: Date in a Blink, what did you think? Did they match? Why or why not? And I'll give my guess, and then Laura can reveal what happened.

Barry
I think there's enough spark that they could have had something going on. But again, I don't know exactly what they were saying yes to, ultimately. So I would say it's possible. I think they definitely could have had further progress. We're not they did or not. I don't know.

Taly
I think that they matched as well. Laura?

Laura
They did match, yay!

Barry
Woo!

Laura
At a minimum, they wanted to continue the conversation after they had their first 10 minutes together. So we're still waiting to hear back on whether they continued the conversation further beyond that, and we'll, we'll keep you updated. As we wrap up a question we love to ask all of our experts. Do you have any quick words of wisdom or advice for our audience?

Barry
Quick words. Well, I'll put it this way. Since this is all about dating and relationship and love, but love first, the loving with yourself and honoring yourself. So when you go on dates, be loving towards the person you're going to meet but also be extremely loving to yourself. So if you don't feel aligned or feel authentic, trust that trust your intuition, your own instincts and have fun experience and the biggest piece of all is when you're on these first few dates go in having high involvement and low attachment so you don't get rejected.

Laura
I adore that this perspective of being able to remind people to love themselves first. And that sense of warmth, I think just really emulates and how people choose to show up in the world. Great words of wisdom.

Barry
Thank you.

Laura
Yeah. And as our final final question, how can our audience get connected with you?

Barry
Easiest way is that all my social media and my website is my name, Barry Selby, so YouTube, y'know, LinkedIn, Facebook, wherever, except for Instagram, which is therealBarrySelby, but my website is BarrySelby.com. And you can get information about how to, find out how to reach me, get support, get guidance on my website, and I also have a YouTube channel with about 1400 videos on it. They'll keep you busy for about six months. youtube.com/barrySelby, so again, all my name is everywhere.

Laura
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for sharing your words of wisdom and your experience with our audience. And yeah, I look forward to chatting with you again soon.

Barry
Thank you so much for the invitation and my pleasure. I hope to see you again.

[advert]

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Laura
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re hosting Shea and Albert for a Blink Date!

Taly
Modern dating sucks. But it doesn’t have to! Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you’ll listen in on 10 minute voice-only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It’s time to stop collecting penpals and start, oh, I don’t know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating?! Is that even a thing anymore?! But for real, dating should be fun! We hope listening in inspires y’all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we’ll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our hand-picked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after ten minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out!

Laura
Before we jump into today’s Blink Date, here’s a quick word from our sponsors.

[sponsored content]

Laura
We're here on Date in a Blink today with Shea and Albert. I'm going to let you to dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question: besides time and money, what do you want more of this year?

Albert
Mmm, I'll uh, let Shea go first.

Shea
Besides time and money, ah, I think more experiences, um, more traveling, more adventures, getting outdoors more. And maybe some more family time. What about you, Albert?

Albert
Uh, something a little similar, just opportunities, I think have a lot to give to the world. Basically, my profession and relationships, friend wise and family wise, just need more opportunities to showcase my skills.

Shea
What, what skills?

Albert
I mean, I'm, besides being a great teacher, there's a lot of skills that I would like to show. Like, just incorporate, like, I really like music and art, and I'd really like to showcase that too, particularly in my classroom. And because because I teach special ed. And so it's always that stigma, like, oh, the special needs kids can't do this or can't do that. Always gonna put in a box. And we're not really given many opportunities to really showcase what our kids can do. I mean, the reality is, it's kind of saying, they're not really giving me an opportunity to showcase what my kids can do. So I just want more opportunities to, for them, and for me as well. Because I take advantage of a moment like that, and it will open up more doors for not only my kiddos, but for me, as well as, uh, I just finishing my master's. And I do want to go and do my doctoral... I just want more opportunities to really, truly grow.

Shea
Yeah, personal growth, it's good, it's good intention.

Albert
You said yours is family, do you not see your family a lot?

Shea
I do see my family. But I just had my brother move back from Chicago, back to California. So, spend more time with him and his fiancee is definitely on the list. And you know, as you know, life can just get busy and people get carried away. And if you're not a next door neighbor with someone, it's a bit more challenging to see them. So just making more time for that.

Albert
Are you a California native to, or...?

Shea
I am yeah, I grew up in Southern California.

Albert
Oooh, okay

Shea
What about you?

Albert
Yep, same Southern California. There's a... I like it here. Particularly the, I don't know where in California you are, but I'm in the LA area. So....

Shea
Yeah, same. I'm in West LA.

Albert
Okay, it's nice. I like it. I know people get an idea of LA, I think certain things... I do, I do summer camp as well and always have these international kids come over. And the first thing they want to do, they always think that, like, celebrities are walking around in Hollywood.

Shea
Oh I know

Albert
Right? I just have to break their heart, you're just gonna meet into, you know, Kardashian or Kanye West. I gotta like, no, no, buddy, and then I gotta tell him like, oh, you know, just because someone gives you a CD in Hollywood doesn't mean like they really liked you. And I was able to nice to them. And it's funny. That's the stigma that they have. And again, they think beach bums as well. California is full of full of beach bums. And so... it's just funny

Shea
You're not far off with that one. There are some beach bums here.

Albert
Yeah, there's just definitely some beach bonds. But I mean, there's, not, I mean... I don't know how to surf!

Shea
I don't either. If that's, if that helps you feel a little bit better. I don't either. And yeah,

Albert
I don't know how to surf or skateboard... and I think those are the two things, that two ideas that they uh, have.

Shea
There's so many other things you can do that you don't have to do those just to fit in here.

Albert
Yeah, so, but yeah

Shea
I always tell whenever I meet someone new from out of state, I always tell them you don't have to accept the CDs from the guys on Venice beach [inaudible]. No one ever knows that. And I mean, I grew up going up there with friends in high school and you know, you feel like you have to take it and then you have to pay for it. And I always feel bad when I see people go kind of get like swindled into that deal.

Albert
Yeah, and that's the thing since these are international kids and so, you know, quick, quick rundown. They come over here to California. They learn English. First we take them out of these excursions and so we have this, you know, foreign, you know, 14 to 17 year old kid trying their best and in English like, Oh, now I have to pay? umm, and that's funny and there's that, and uh, it's just funny. No, I don't know if you, I don't know if you like kids or if you ever want to have kids but I'm... uh, they're very funny individuals.

Shea
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you are good with youth. What age range do you teach?

Albert
Right now? It is first and second grade. Last year. I was TK-1. So...

Shea
What is TK?

Albert
TK, uh, before kindergarten

Shea
Got it

Albert
and their kindergarten? I think, it's that what it stands for.

Shea
Got it.

Albert
Yeah. I got the mini-me's, the little ones.

Shea
Yeah. That's a cute age. What is that? 4, 5? 5 or 6?

Albert
Yep. So I got this, uh, I wear this little smartwatch. And by the end of the day, I mean, my 15,000 steps. Why do they run so much! It's a, it's a good workout. And then afterwards, you know, like a little drink here and there.

Shea
What is your go to drink?

Albert
As much as the stereotype is that teachers drink wine. I take a little bit of something stronger.

Shea
I've never heard that stereotype.

Albert
The stereotype says teachers red wine or teachers drink coffee. I don't drink coffee.

Shea
Ooh

Albert
Like I like smoothies or shakes something to really wake, hmm... something else to wake me up. And so, I mean...

Shea
So going back to your your afternoon drink, what was that consists of?

Albert
[inaudible]

Shea
Something who has whiskey in it, you said?

Albert
Yeah, anything with whiskey

Shea
Oh, anything with whiskey, yeah

Albert
Just goes down, goes down my throat really smoothly.

Shea
Oh, yeah. Whiskey's good.

Albert
Yeah, but not everybody. Not everyone has my same taste. What about you?

Shea
Um, I think it depends on the event, or the night I guess I'm going to have so, if it's just after work during the week, it's probably usually a glass of wine, red wine. But weekends, I'm more open to like a cocktail. I like a margarita. I think that probably, that's probably my go-to

Albert
Do you mix your on drinks?

Shea
You know, during the quarantine I did get very into creating my own blackberry syrup to put in my margaritas

Albert
Mmmm

Shea
and that was so delicious.

Albert
Hmm. A friend of mine, yeah, a friend of mine join this Facebook group where it's just a whole bunch of people make different cocktails and they just share ingredients together.

Shea
That's awesome

Albert
And then just people posted all their best drinks and they, the people comment, "so what's the recipe? How do you make it?" and then my friend went shopping with one of the I guess I want to dive who's very frequent on that Facebook group and then they went shopping together for alcohol and then came back and he started making drinks as well this is what you're gonna need those how you do it and like There you go. Now you know how to make it on your own.

Shea
Yeah, it's awesome. I love it. That's that's the one thing I feel like Facebook has done really well is create those communities of people. I mean, I, I created a new friend through a Facebook, like, fitness group because I'm super into fitness. And to this day, I mean that was probably like two years ago and to this day we are still friends so it was pretty cool.

Albert
Fitness us in with you do you like doing outdoor stuff? Or do you like going to the gym?

Shea
All of the above. Um, I would just say I'm like an all around pretty active person. But yeah, I think for the most part during the week, it's like, well, um, during COVID when everything first started shutting down, I was doing workouts just outdoors like in front of my apartment and then got the chance to turn a garage into a gym and did that and so I've been using that ever since and then that's usually like my go to during the week but during the weekend I want to be anywhere but the gym so a hike or biking, rollerblading, walking, just well, really anything.

Albert
Oh nice. Yeah, my, uh, my workout buddy's my dog. She's, she has a lot of energy for a small 13 pound maltipoo and so...

Shea
What's her name?

Albert
Daisy, she's a rescue, actually.

Shea
Cute, I love that. I'm very, very passionate about rescuing dogs. So I'm glad that you said that.

Albert
This is my second rescue dog actually

Shea
That's awesome. That's the best, you're giving them a second chance

Albert
I am... uh, I got really sad when my first dog died but then I guess somebody told me like the greatest honor I can do is rescue another dog in honor of my first dog yeah okay all right because it's it's sad.

[“Smooth” sound effect]

Laura
At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

[sponsored content]

Laura
As someone who’s relatively new to LA myself, it warmed my cold, east coast heart to hear Shea and Albert talk about their mutual love for SoCal living. I audibly laughed when Albert mentioned the disappointment international students experience that Hollywood isn’t crawling with celebrities, and again when Shea said she has to teach her transplant friends that they don’t have to accept CDs from strangers in Venice Beach.

Do you think Shea and Albert will decline CDs together while taking long walks through Venice beach, or will their next walk be to opposite ends of the pier? Join us next week where we’ll talk to an expert about the date and reveal what happened!

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today's episode of Date in a Blink where we're joined by dating coach Lori Mendelsohn. Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink dates? Or when they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

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Taly
Today on Date in a Blink, we're excited to be chatting with Lori Mendelsohn, a dating coach who relies on her keen intuition to match singles and help facilitate a happily ever after. Lori refers to herself as a student of human nature with a career path that's taken her through the fashion industry, the pet industry, and ultimately back around to her longtime passion: matchmaking. Lori has over 40 years of experience in successfully matching couples, many of whom are now married with kids and even grandkids. Her mission is to help divorced, widowed, and single professionals find a life partner. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today.

Lori
My pleasure, ladies, happy to be here.

Taly
Thank you so much. In previous talks, you've mentioned that you rely on your intuition to determine who would be a strong match. And I'm wondering, in addition to intuition, is there something you look for in people that signals whether or not they might make for a good match?

Lori
Yeah, absolutely. What what I clearly pick up on is how they speak in terms of future or past. And if they are constantly talking about their ex, what their ex did, what their ex didn't do, they clearly have not gotten over that person. But if they speak in sentences such as I'm looking for a person who has these qualities, and I am ready, and I am able, and I am excited, they speak in what will come versus what happened in their background. And that really gives me a clear indication that they're ready, they're ready to go forward.

Taly
I love that I never really thought about how we think about those things. But it's so true in terms of thinking kind of like with a hopeful perspective about the future versus thinking more about kind of lost opportunities of the past. So I love that.

Lori
Good, good, good. Yes. And also about victimization, a lot of people still live in that space. And it's, it will not help you in the future in any way, shape, or form. So yeah, let's move on with with happiness and joy and hopefulness.

Taly
Yeah

Laura
I love that. I think that actually it goes nicely to the next question. On your blog, you write a bit about what it means to date with intention. One of the tips you give your readers is to decide what you want in someone and figure out if that person has your must haves. What is the balance between staying true to yourself and your non negotiables, while also avoiding expectations that are set so high, they become impossible to meet?

Lori
You know, ladies, that is that's a challenge that I see all the time that people come with these lists. And these lists are impossible, as you said, to meet. And what I ask people to do is, look at what you offer someone, and is it— what is— what you are offering equal to what it is that you're looking for, in another human being. So when I first started dating, getting out of my divorce, I had these lists, and that as the years have gone on, and I have become more secure in myself, I don't look for that other person to fill these voids that I once had. And so what I look for now is a complement to who I am right now and who I hope to be in the future. So what I look for is someone who has a joy and a zest for life and who wants to explore and is curious and not necessarily six foot one has a job that pays $50,000. You know, and I'm 5'8, so I would like someone who's 6'1. But it isn't the imperative here, what the imperative is, is do we bring the best out in each other? Will this person treat me with love, kindness and respect? And is this person going to be there for me when I really need him? That's my must have list. Not a Porsche, not a corner suite, you know, where— there has to be a chemistry, a spark. But yeah, I really shed this must have list because what— why do you really must— why must you have this? What what is it about you that you're lacking?

Taly
That reminds uh, Laura, you had a spreadsheet, right where you had to deal breakers and negotiables. And you actually broke them out because it's fair to have a few deal breakers. Like if you want to have kids and they don't. Like that's that's a pretty big deal.

Lori
Right

Taly
So I remember Laura seeing your spreadsheet and how it was broken out and that it really made you think about, you know, what is actually something you need versus something you want that at the end of the day like nobody's going to check all the boxes. So maybe, maybe, you know, we can think a little bit more fluidly about what we're looking for.

Lori
Yeah, I agree. I have I have deal breakers. I don't want to be around the smoker. I don't drink and if someone wants to drink that's great, but I don't want someone with an alcohol addiction. I want someone with good dental hygiene and personal hygiene. Those for me are deal breakers, right?

Laura
Dental Hygiene is also number one thing for me. Kind of like going to the dentist, I'm like, do you floss? No? Oh, this has been a nice dinner.

Taly
Laura, I will admit I didn't floss when I was in my 20s. It was like some point in my later not later years, but like my late 20s that I probably started flossing regularly. So I'm sad to hear that would have been a deal breaker if we were dating each other

Laura
Not a hard deal breakers, it was more: Are you willing to instill good flossing habits? Because some people were very adamant about "No, I'm— like, How dare you try to... like what are you, my mother?" I'm like, no, I'm not, I just I want you to care about your own dental hygiene. I want you to have teeth long into you know, very many, many years into the future... got to care of them.

Taly
Right

Lori
That could be a great first date question: do you own a floss kit?

Laura
Are you a flosser? And not the dance?

Taly
Well, Lori, you actually kind of alluded to this, but you've written on your website that you're out there in the trenches to, or in other words, you're navigating this wild world of dating just like your clients, other than a deeper understanding of the dating scene, what have been some of the biggest takeaways from your own experience?

Lori
It's such a great question. And and I could go on for minutes, as well, I'll try to do it very quickly. It was— the— I think the biggest takeaway for me right now is to release any expectation. Because in my generation, we were raised to believe that a prince would come on his white horse and pick us up and take us to his castle and take care of us and, and our life would be amazing. And I think that we get so ahead of ourselves in dating, which is a natural reaction, that I think it's important to just stay in the moment, get to know the person and see if you really even enjoy being around this person versus planning what it's going to look like. Live in the now, ask a lot of questions, be curious, and have fun with it. Because dating should be fun. If you are with someone whose energy brings you down, notice it, make note of it, see how you feel around it, and move on quickly. You know, a lot of people say, "Well, you should give a guy at least four to five dates to see how you feel about him," I don't believe that. I believe that, that if you're happy on the first date, see what happens on the next one and move quickly through people. You know, in my age group, I'm 66, we don't have a lot of time to waste. And in younger generations, if they don't have the same aspirations that you do, having a family, traveling the world, saving money, the same financial concerns, move on, just move on, you know, we don't need to be with another person. And other person is a nice extension and icing on the cake for our lives. But we don't have to have it.

Taly
I love that. It's one of the reasons I don't like the better half analogy, because I think we're all holes on our own. And other people can just add to that, but not complete us. It's not like we're missing anything.

Lori
Yes. Agreed.

Laura
So in addition to what you shared, what has surprised you the most?

Lori
When I opened up my, my search, and, and my criteria, and I let my criteria go of what I thought I really needed, I was really pleasantly surprised what came to me. That the bodies were very different than what I expected. But I really liked the guys, the physical packaging was very different. And I'm you know, I'm a girl from LA, and I was in the fashion industry most of my life. And so I mean, I hate to say it: aesthetics were important to me. But when I opened up my, my— just my, my thinking of, you know, this great man may be in this very imperfect body. And I also realize I'm very imperfect too. Why do I expect perfection out of a man when I am far from perfect myself? So when I opened up and let go and released, all of these great guys came to me.

Taly
I love that so much. Because I think in today's dating world, we spend so much time thinking about that outer package without even thinking about what's inside. And that isn't to say the outer package doesn't matter at all. But you'd be surprised what's underneath sometimes if we just gave people a chance and it can change our perspective of that that outside part. So thank you for sharing that.

Lori
Sure

Taly
In another one of your blog posts, you talk about balanced conversation, and how important it is for both parties to be asking questions and not just leaving one person to carry the conversation. And I imagine a lot of people who have experienced this at one point or another where the conversation is imbalanced and one person is carrying the conversation. So I'm wondering if you have any advice for facilitating a balanced conversation and what's a tactful way to address the issue if the conversation remains unbalanced? Happens all the time.

Lori
It happens all the time! And actually, I—because of my sense of humor, I feel very competent and saying when a man just is so verbose, and it keeps going on and on, I'll say, "Well, enough about you, let's get back to me." Wait, and then they snap out of it. And they, and they'll say, Oh, my God, I am speaking a lot about myself. And I will say, you are. I'm looking forward to you asking me a few questions too.

I love that

And even though it's very direct—

Taly
and playful!

Lori
it gets the point across. So having a balanced conversation, people should keep in mind that in getting to know the person who is sitting across from you, or hiking next to you, it's important that you ask, they answer, and then you give it back. You have, you, you try to be very cognizant of not hogging the conversation, asking questions, and if they're not, it's okay to say, you know, hey, I've heard that you love to go ice fishing, and then you love to go camping and your passion is to go to Tibet one day and hike. What are you curious about me? What would you like to know about me that maybe I didn't cover on my online dating profile? What questions do you have of me, you know? And then, and, and rather than saying, "Well, you know, you know, enough about you, God, you haven't asked me one question. What's going on with you?" It's very fair to say, what would you like to know about me? You know, I'd like to share an experience that I had this gentleman spoke for 45 minutes, I counted,

Taly
oh, my God.

Lori
45 minutes about himself and the last—

Taly
How did you stay awake? I feel like I would just doze off, or...

Lori
Well, you know, as a dating coach, I like to glean experience from all of these years that I have. And some of them make for really great blog posts. So it's almost like people are giving me content, and they don't know it. But this gentleman spoke for 45 minutes. And at the end of his diatribe, his monologue, he said to me, what questions do you have of me that I haven't answered?

Taly
Oh, no

Lori
It's, it's true. And I said, I think you've covered everything magnificently. I do have to tell you, I don't think that we're a match. And I appreciate your time. And I wish you love, luck in finding your girl. And he was incredulous. said, "What?"

Laura
"But I'm so interesting!"

Taly
Right?

Laura
"Just you not just hear me for the last 45 minutes?"

Lori
Yes. And I told him, I said, I don't feel important at all. You spoke about yourself. And you didn't ask one question about me. And keep that in mind for the next woman that you have a phone call with.

Taly
No. Oh good. It was on the phone, it wasn't in person. So you get to at least multitask. Okay good. Gosh, okay. Yeah. I was worried that you were sitting together and who this person was just like talking at you for 45 minutes, somehow, it's a little bit better that it was virtual.

Lori
Yes. Well, you know, I have a method and the first is, you know, your texting, then a phone conversation, then either zoom or FaceTime, and then you meet in person, because it just saves a lot— If you know that you're not attracted, why go down that path of getting ready and even going out on a date with someone?

Taly
Yep.

Laura
Absolutely. Turning a little bit back to the balanced conversation. I'm curious thinking about Allen and Kyla's date specifically. Do you feel like they've maintained a balanced conversation? And if not, how could they have approached it differently? And if so, what are some ways that they could have taken the conversation a step further?

Lori
Well, I'll tell you, I think, I after listening to it, I felt that that Kyla, really was very, very nervous. And out of her nervousness, she kept asking a lot of questions, and she kept interrupting. And that is something when people are having a conversation. I've— I don't do it all the time, but I will just count to one when someone is finished speaking, I'll count to one. And then I will respond. So I'd love to hear your perspective on it.

Taly
I think they just were, it felt like they just were out of sync in terms of like both of them talking at once at various points. And I don't, I don't know that either them intended to do that necessarily. It just might have been like a mismatch of energies. So I definitely got a similar feeling in terms of how the flow of the conversation was. But to be honest, even hearing you talk about how you like to take a, you know, ask a question and count to one or whatever it may be like, I need to work on that. And I will admit that because I, I feel like when Laura and I are in conversations together, sometimes I am much quicker to fill the silence than she is, and I have to, have had to learn to kind of take a step back and wait to be so that she can step in. And it isn't me like just, you know, trying to talk over her. It's just, I'm just like a quicker, I just need to and I'm snapping, I don't know if you can hear that. I'm just quicker to feel the silence. And I grew up in a world where that, that was normal. And so it's interesting to think about how that plays into dating. Because people probably come up with different things and different approaches to silence. And you know, might be anxious about letting silence happen. But silence can be helpful. It's actually I think a negotiation tactic. Not to say dating should be like negotiating, but it's a negotiation tactic, to not say something sometimes to see what the other person responds with or offers up. So I think something similar can be said for dating.

Lori
I agree with you on that wholeheartedly.

Laura
Yeah, I think there was a study I was reading recently or heard about can't remember where it came across it. But it was something along the lines of women actually, no, I'm saying actually. But women have the tendency to want or feel the need to feel silence and will often do that, whether it's in an argument or workplace conversation, dating somebody, trying to get to know someone, there's this strong desire to ultimately fill that silence. And I think I heard about it maybe five plus years ago. And so I drastically changed how I relate to other people, because I realized that I was kind of doing the same thing where I, you know, "I'm sorry, did the middle of your sentence interrupt the beginning of mine?" kind of thing to a bunch of people. And I do think that— I love the advice that you gave of pausing a second and consciously telling yourself to do that, to make sure that you're giving the other person that you're talking with some space. And then as you get more comfortable with people, I think you learn the talking patterns with each other, where people get excited, and it becomes a lot more natural. But in these beginning stages, I always think it's better to be... is... seek to understand rather than directly be understood, and seek to create a shared understanding, and to create that kind of space. I think that's a really beautiful way or, and a really easy way to try to improve that, that direct communication in such as a simple way.

Lori
Yeah, you know, you just said something that reminded me in my corporate days, which was, there was a saying, which was called listen to learn, and it was when dealing with employees. It's okay to even say to someone, when you're on a date: you pause and you say, did I... let me understand what you just said, without trying to sound like a therapist or a coach, right? What you just said, is this, am I hearing you right? And that also creates a bond between the other person because if you are hearing them right, they're getting this, this hit, you know, of dopamine, which is: she gets me. And isn't that what we all want is to make that connection of being heard of being understood, even acknowledged, you know, and so that can really help in the dating process. And I think oftentimes, when we're listening, when we're nervous, we don't even listen to what people are saying, we're already saying to ourselves, "What am I going to say, What am I going to say? How am I going to respond?" And you're not even hearing the other person.

Taly
Yeah, no, I think that happens all the time.

Laura
I think it goes without saying that online dating in general can be kind of exhausting, and at times, it can feel ruthless. What are some strategies for making online dating a more positive and enjoyable experience?

Lori
For me, I, I like to have fun in every aspect of my life. So I lead with humor. When I reach out to someone, I will say something funny, when someone reaches back to me, I will try to be very light hearted about it. I think that we need to be respectful of people, we need to be respectful of their time. And if you're not feeling it, cut it off quickly, thank them, be— you know, treat people as if you would, in the in real life. You know, you wouldn't just walk away from someone if they were in the middle of a conversation. You'd say, you know, "I gotta go, I— I'm busy, or I need to wrap this up." You wouldn't just stop the conversation with them. I think that it's important to be choosy about who you converse with. I don't think it's about about quantity. I think it's about quality. You want to invest your time in people who you think will be a good match for you. And I think it's also important to speak to a few people at one time. And, and you'll get to see if there's an ebb and a flow in your conversation. And if you really want to pick up the phone and go to the next step. But I think it's important really just to respond, thank people if it's not a good fit, be mindful that there is a human being on the other end of this, this phone, or you know, or this laptop that there are emotions or feelings behind that person. And to just be kind to be your kindest, nicest self.

Laura
So the million dollar question: Date in a Blink, what did you think?—

Lori
Oh wow I get a million dollars from this? Yay!

Laura
We have to rephrase this, you're the second person who wants a million dollars from us! A million dollar— mono— Okay, so monopoly million dollar question: Did you think that Allen and Kyla matched?

Lori
I don't think they match?

Taly
Laura, what did you think?

Laura
Yeah, I, thought there was a lot of nervous energy. And I, I feel like if it was the other way around, it would not have been a match, where if it was Allen who was asking a lot of the questions, actually, no, do I... do feel that way? I don't even know. I feel like if the conversation was the other way around, I wouldn't have thought it would be as much of a match. But I don't know I was mediocre on this. I thought that they would want to continue the conversation and maybe have a chat offline somewhere where it's not on a podcast broadcast to lots of people. So that was my... I thought it would err towards the match. So what happened, Taly?

Taly
So they did actually match?

Lori
Wow!

Taly
They were interested in continuing the conversation, but from what we understood afterwards, it didn't actually go anywhere. So yeah, that, you know, not much news to report, but they matched.

Lori
Next!

Taly
Next... a couple final questions. So as we wrap up, a question we like to ask all of our experts: do you have any quick words of wisdom or advice for our audience?

Lori
Yes, yes. Yes. Be hopeful! And imagine what this person look. Let me take that bet. Imagine this person in your life. I use a lot of visual, visual–isation techniques. I imagine what he smells like, what he feels like, what he sounds like. And I keep imagine him— imagining him coming to me. And that's something that I do every morning, I walk along the shores of Lake Michigan, I live in Wisconsin, and I, in my walk, I do a walking meditation, and I say, "I am ready for you. Come to me." And so I am, I hate the word manifest, but I'm imagining him my life. I am welcoming him, I want him, I'm ready for him. That's what I do that is a tip that I use with my clients is imagine yourself around this other person. Imagine your life together. And that keeps you hopeful and engaged. And it just keeps you going on.

Taly
I love that. I love the hopeful approach. And a final question for you. Thank you so much for all of the advice you've already given us today and for joining us. But I am wondering if our audience wants to get connected with you, how could they go about doing that?

Lori
Well, thank you for that. So people can reach me by phone, which is area code 414-914-5715. They can reach out to me at hello@AVconnexions.com. And that's spelled A-V-C-O-N-N-E-X-I-O-N-S.com Or at AVconnexions.com. Or Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, my name is Lori Mendelsohn. It's M-E-N-D-E-L-S-O-H-N. I am on all those active platforms so... lots of ways! Carrier pigeon, too would work.

Taly
I was gonna say we're gonna include it all in the show notes, but I don't know how to include the carrier pigeion information.

Laura
Yeah, I think DHL stop sending those.

Taly
But FedEx, Laura, they might still have it.

Laura
Oh, yeah yeah, FedEx is with it.

Taly
Awesome. Thank you so much, Lori.

Lori
Thank you, ladies, so much.

Laura
Thank you, Lori.

Taly
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we’re hosting Allen and Kyla for a Blink Date! Modern dating sucks. But it doesn’t have to! Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you’ll listen in on 10 minute voice-only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It’s time to stop collecting penpals and start, oh, I don’t know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating?! Is that even a thing anymore?! But for real, dating should be fun! We hope listening in inspires y’all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we’ll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our hand-picked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after ten minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out!

Laura
Before we jump into today’s Blink Date, here’s a quick word from our sponsors.

[sponsored content]

Taly
We’re here on Date in a Blink today with Allen and Kyla. I’m going to let you two dive in, but in case it’s helpful to get the conversation started, I’m going to leave you with this question: What forces of nature do you resonate most with? And why?

Kyla
Hmm, forces of nature? So like, the sun or the wind? Or does it have to be like a force that does something specific like verbal?

Taly
Whatever you, whatever direction you want to take it in. It's up to interpretation.

Kyla
Okay. What is What do you think? The kind of force of nature would you be?

Allen
Me? Um, I don’t know. This is such a strange question like, so.

Kyla
Thunder, lighting

Allen
Yeah, he didn't think of a force of nature. Something that I suppose that you, like resonate with you? I mean, it's just environment.

Kyla
I mean, you could like some people would describe themselves as forces of nature inherently. You know what I mean?

Allen
Yeah.

Kyla
Like, someone will come in to, like, you're like a force of nature.

Allen
Oh, right.

Kyla
You know what I mean?

Allen
Yeah. And I get that. Right. No, that makes sense.

Kyla
Yeah. Yeah. So technically, force of nature could be an animal because it's like, oh. Yeah. So like, spirit animal or something like that.

Allen
I mean, I don't really have any spirit animals. I mean, I like if I was to be an animal I would probably be a bird but,

Kyla
A bird, what kind of bird?

Allen
Oh, like, not not like a seagull or like, those, like, annoying birds like pigeons. And like, what, like, I don't know, like a hawk or something.

Kyla
Okay, so like a bird of prey?

Allen
Oh, something like that. Yeah. I don't want to be the bird that gets eaten. So

Kyla
I'm sure you wouldn't feel like the house bird or anything like that.

Allen
No, no. The house with like, I'd want to be free to fly around the world.

Kyla
Yeah, I mean, some parrots can be like, pretty free just by being you know, have you seen macaws?

Allen
I think so. Yeah. I think so, yeah.

Kyla
Like have you seen how big they are?

Allen
Is it like, like a tropical kind of bird?

Kyla
Yeah, but they're technically like pets in a lot of places.

Allen
Really?

Kyla
Yeah, yeah, a lot of people have them as pets.

Allen
Macaw...

Kyla
Yeah, apparently...

Allen
Awh yeah, yeah, okay!

Kyla
…it’s like having a baby. Yeah. Yeah. Like to care for a macaw is like having an actual child. Like I've looked, I've checked,

Allen
Right...

Kyla
Yeah, yeah, I only have like a small bird. It's like a little tiny parrot.

Allen
Oh, that's cute. Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, there's a lot of like, not really parrots.

Kyla
Oh same!

Allen
Oh, really? Oh okay cool

Kyla
Oh, yeah.

Like, I mean, mostly the parrots here just budgies like the native. Everyone always thinks that my parrots a budgie even though it's like, way bigger.

Allen
Oh, yeah. Like there's a lot of like those like rainbow like lorikeets

Kyla
Lorikeets! I love those.

Allen
Those ones, basically.

Kyla
Yeah definitely

There's those ones are really cute

Allen
Yeah. Cool. Um, like so like whereabouts are you from in Australia?

Kyla
Sydney,

Allen
Sydney. Oh, wow. See, actually in Sydney as well, damn.

Kyla
Oh you're in Sydney, too! Nice, nice, nice. That's cool.

Allen
Okay, because I didn't think that would match us like so precisely, but,

Kyla
So precisely, like nearby. I mean, makes sense, makes sense. Yeah, I could tell from your accent. I don't really have Australian accent.

Allen
Yeah, I thought you were kind of American at first.

Kyla
I do, yeah, people people think that but I'm not. I just I just I didn't grow up here. That's why

Allen
Ah okay.

Kyla
Yeah, I grew up elsewhere like other places,

Allen
other places. Wow. So you've traveled.

Kyla
Yeah, I've moved around a lot growing up, but like I was I've been here since I was like, 14 or something.

Allen
Oh, I guess, that's alright you've been here, you've been here a while.

Kyla
Yeah, like long enough, long enough.

Allen
Haha, long enough.

Kyla
How bout you? Were you always here?

Allen
Yeah, I was born here and never lived anywhere else. Yeah. I mean, obviously, on the holidays and stuff, but um, yeah, just

Kyla
Yeah, yeah. Okay. What's your what would you say your favorite holiday in Australia is

Allen
Oh, that's the thing, right. I've only holiday-ed with my fam. So it's hard to say. Yeah. I really liked like, be to Cairns which I really liked. Yeah. Yes, I'll say Cannes, because I haven't traveled much around Australia. What about you?

Kyla
I've only really traveled with my fam as well, so don't worry about that. So what what about Cairns I don't ever know, I don't know how to pronounce it.

Allen
I think it's "Cannes." I like the tropical warmth and there's a great barrier reef there, which is pretty cool.

Kyla
Yeah!

Allen
People really chill there, like, it's crazy, like the capital C, it's capital not capital, but it's like a it's a city, right? You're gonna see Yeah, it's just quiet. It's like, I won't say dead, but it's pretty much dead, like on a weekend. I just can't believe it's like peaceful.

Kyla
I mean, if we compare it to Sydney, it's like, Sydney's busy all the time.

Allen
He says hectic. Like, even with COVID That's still crazy.

Kyla
Yeah, it was pretty. It was like, a little bit busy. Um, like, it was way less busy when COVID hit and it was like during the lockdown and stuff. I barely got out anyway, so I didn't really know how quiet it really got.

Allen
Oh, yeah. It was bad. Like, I mean, I wasn't there always he doing I always getting go there during the lockdown. Because yeah, but I always see like, from the pictures and stuff. I knew I was just like, completely dead.

Kyla
Yeah ghost town. It's like you're not used to it when the city is usually so yeah. Like the traffic and everything.

Allen
Yeah, but I mean, I look I've been back in the office for about one or two my two months now something and like it just been picking up from there. Like cars everywhere now busses. Yes. Crazy.

Kyla
Yeah that's true. People are still, like, wearing masks though.

Allen
Awh yeah yeah yeah, that's good. Yeah, like, it's funny, cuz at first I didn't really like the masks. But then like, now that I've just I have to where I kind of realize actually, you know, it's kind of useful, even like, not against COVID Because like, there's so much pollution and stuff out there.

Kyla
Yeah. Pollution, other sicknesses. When you're like, even when you're a little bit sick. You have to wear a mask now.

Allen
Yeah, you should. Like I think it's a good idea. Because like, you can infect other people. It's really gross, if you think about it. Like, I remember back in the day, like, before, COVID like people just coughing like they're about to die on the train.

Kyla
Out in the open

Allen
Or in the office as well. It's just like, Dude, there's like, 40 people like in this space, right?

Kyla
Like, you're sick and you went to work. I mean, some people don't want to use up their um, like their sick days, you know.

Allen
yeah. I get like, please stay at home.

Kyla
Yeah, very true, very true. Another benefit of the mask is that, you know, like the style, I guess.

Allen
Oh, yeah, like

Kyla
very stylish for some people. Like, when you're wearing something it looks like sometimes. I don't know. But I feel like people are more attractive with the mask on

Allen
Really? Gee, they must have pretty not like ugly like, face.

Kyla
Eyes! I guess. No, no, it's not that I don't like people's faces. I just really like people's eyes. You know what I mean.

Allen
Okay, you're an eye...person

Kyla
Eyes, eyes is nice, you know? Don't you think so?

Allen
I mean, yeah, like, I mean, eyes are cool too. I think it's a very like intimate thing as well, like, because, like, obviously, you know, from the street level, you can see the eyes but you don't really that's not really what you notice. But when you get closer to someone you can really see,

Kyla
Yeah, their eyes.

Yeah. And you can never recognize someone like used to, like immediately or anything like that.

Allen
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a bit (inaudible) I suppose.

Kyla
Yeah, exactly. But I don't think everyone like a lot of people are wearing masks anymore nowadays, though.

Allen
Uh, yeah, I mean, like, in the city I still see like a few people. I mean, the thing is, like, you need to wear it, like when you're indoors so a lot of people just leave it on, or half on, or whatever, and then just put it on (inaudible).

Kyla
Yeah. Yeah. And then noticing that.

Allen
Yeah, I was just like, yeah, yeah.

Kyla
Yeah, like, a lot of people, yeah, I do notice that a lot of people leave it half on even though it doesn't really do anything, like at this point, it's kind of just like a statement that I'm protecting myself. Because I have a mask on, you know what I mean? And no one really thinks, yeah, no one's really scared of getting infected at this point. Because,

Allen
I mean, well, yeah, that was like until I suppose like this new variant, like, got like, you know, in the news, and I'm just like, ooh, that's a bit scary. And yeah,

Kyla
I've mainly been staying home so like, my work hasn't picked up yet. Like, I haven't needed to go out.

Allen
Oh, okay.

Kyla
Yeah, like aside from, you know, like social gatherings and stuff, but otherwise, like uni has been online work has been online. Yeah,

Allen
yeah, sure, sure. What do you like, study and like do for work?

Kyla
Oh, I just finished uni actually, I am studying anthropology.

Allen
Oh, cool.

Kyla
Do you know what it is?

Allen
It's like some, it's like to study of what like look human culture, or something, is it?

Kyla
Human beings. Yeah. Yeah.

Allen
Yeah. Nice.

Kyla
Yeah, I just do part time. Some of that it hasn't picked up yet. Like

Allen
yeah, fair enough. I mean, yeah, some areas are pretty (inaudible) pretty slow with COVID

Kyla
Yeah, pretty much so I'm looking for something full time next year, unless I go into like, honors maybe.

Allen
Ohh, damn, that's, uh, whew, damn.

Taly
At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

Taly
I loved listening to Allen & Kyla’s conversation about birds. When Allen said he would be a bird… just not an annoying one like a seagull, I burst out laughing. I really wanted to hear Kyla’s answer, but they moved on to talking about other things. Will they match?

Tune in next week, when we’ll chat with an expert about the date, to find out!

Taly
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Laura
We're here on Date in a Blink today with Master Executive Certified Matchmaker and science based dating and relationship coach, Arlene Washburn.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating? Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear new couples go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpick podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

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Laura
Arlene Washburn is a master executive certified matchmaker and science based dating and relationship coach and creator of the Get Real, Get Love coaching system. She's an industry expert and consultant to many professional matchmakers and coaches. Arlene traveled worldwide, training and mentoring love and industry professionals and singletons. She is the founder of AV connections, which is a boutique matchmaking agency, Life Past Divorce, which is a resource for individuals affected by divorce, as well as a professional networking platform.

Hi Arlene, we are so excited to host you today and learn more about your background as a certified matchmaker dating coach, radio and TV guest, speaker, and magazine contributor, and of course, to chat about Courtney and Shresth's date. It's a pleasure to have you on the show today!

Arlene
It's so good to be with you. Thank you for having me.

Laura
Diving right in, on the AV Connecxions website, it says you're a science based dating and relationship coach. Could you unpack that for us a little bit and explain what science based dating is and tell us how it differs from other approaches?

Arlene
So my coaching is based on science and research, I think, because I'm very incredulous, and I need proof for everything. And I spent 20 years in the pharmaceutical industry where, you know, we were used to evidence base, you know, research based, and all of that. I think I brought that into what I do today. And I also needed it to be able to work with really smart people who just don't believe what I tell them. And so I'm able to show the data and the science that is available for dating and relationships.

Laura
I, as someone who loves the research behind things, I think that that's such a surprisingly refreshing approach. Sometimes I feel like a lot of what we see in the industry is people's personal experience and trying to apply an individual experience to help other people. So I really, really love the perspective that you take, I think that it's it can be really transformative for a lot of people.

Arlene
Absolutely, I attract a lot of women that really want to understand and unpack like, what, what does it take to have a good relationship. And so while I have a lot of experience for myself and things that I've gone through, I don't think it's fair to be strictly anecdotal about relationships. And I think that a vast majority of, quote unquote, coaches out there, who really there's no barrier to entry. I think that's the approach that they take. It's just all anecdotal and opinions, and it's very detrimental to the people who are already struggling, trying to meet their match.

Taly
I think another thing that I have noticed, and what I see in terms of dating advice is a lot of, you know, refer– reference to this idea that love happens at first sight, or you just know when you meet the right person. And I think, you know, sometimes it it makes it hard when we are meeting new people, because we're like, "Well, I didn't just feel that spark, or there's something missing." We think there's this like elusive thing that we have heard about, but we don't really know what it's defined as. And we look at the movies, and we're like, oh, and you know, that's what it's supposed to look like. But I think taking kind of a more science based approach is a really interesting alternative to that, because it kind of removes yourself from some of the myth that we might hear a lot about in our day to day lives and kind of ground us back into reality. So I also really appreciate that different perspective.

Arlene
Absolutely. And I survey couples that have been in long term relationships, I've been compiling data for myself in order to write a book. And a good majority of them, you'll ask, did you find each other interesting? Or were you attracted immediately? And many will say no, at first, I didn't even like my spouse. And now here they are in these long term relationships. So this idea that you're going to have these butterflies and that you're going to know, it's just, it's just false. And people go through life expecting that and then are disappointed, which is what expectation is, is really disappointment in the making. So I like to move them away from that and get more clinical about it so that they can then open up and say, Okay, well, this is biologically the way it is, or this is what the data shows or the research. They don't argue with me as much and a good majority of my clients are women. I think we as women push back a little bit more than men. I think men are more solution oriented, and they just want to fix it and they go along with what you tell them but a lot of the pushback that I get is usually from the women, and I know because I'm one of them.

Laura
A lot of what you're saying reminds me of the phrase fortune favors the bold. And I think that a lot of people think that how you fall in love with someone looks a lot like what you see in the movies. Where oh, we locked eyes from a across the room, and I just knew, and I think there's some validity to that. But there's, that's mostly in the lust camp. And so I really appreciate when you're talking about, you know, taking this more clinical approach to, I guess, dating, mating and relating, which is actually the name of one of my favorite research articles, which I think it's pretty cool. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. But it does show that, it does show that most people in long term healthy relationships, the, that initial spark, that initial connection is something that often can get things started, but it's not the thing that sustains that relationship.

Arlene
Absolutely.

Taly
So Arlene, I have a question for you, it, it sounds like you and your husband met in a way that was a little bit different from how AV Connexions matches people. I'm wondering if you can tell us a bit about how you two met and some of the insights you might have gained from it.

Arlene
Oh, my gosh, this is such a great story. And, you know, I'm a very transparent person. My husband first was like, what? So we met on match.com. And whenever anybody would meet us, they would say, How did you guys meet? And I would say, Oh, we met on match.com. And he would give me this look. And I'm like, what is the big deal!

Taly
Like it's a dirty secret.

Arlene
Right? You know, I think we need to move away from this shame about using online platforms, I think they're here to stay. And they've been around for 30 years. So we need to get over it. But that said, every step of the way in which we met, you know, or the circumstances of us meeting, were very interesting, because if I had gone with what people think, is a great match versus not, we would not have continued through the relationship. So for example, he was not geographically desirable, we lived over an hour away. So that's a reason that people throw away so many great candidates. And when I work with clients, if we're helping them with their online profile, first thing I do is go through their garbage bin and see all the gold that they may have thrown out because I think people do that. And if you ask the average person: I have the absolute perfect match for you. He fits, he, he, or she fits all of the categories that you're looking for, doesn't violate your deal breakers, but they're on the other end of the earth, and they're going to make you happy for the rest of your life. Most people would say, oh my god, yeah, of course, I want to meet this person. So, you know, geography is important to some degree, but I think too much onus is put on that. So that was step number one. Number two, he was super, like, open and honest about everything, almost to a fault, right? But then I got off the phone. And as I was thinking, God, this guy is telling me everything. I thought, hey, at least he's honest. So there's always two ways to look at things. And anyway, I was going through all these motions with him. And little by little, we connected we met halfway, we hit it off. And I think what united us was that we have very similar core values, and similar life goals. And, you know, sometimes we say we're like, the male and female version of each other is very strange. But we hit it off. And we're happily married for many years now. And to be honest, I wouldn't do this work if I wasn't in a happy and healthy relationship for me personally, because that's the standard that I hold myself to. But there was so many reasons why I could have ruled him out every step of the way, based on what people think, you know, so...

Taly
There are always reasons to rule people out. And I feel like we've, you know, gotten into this habit of ruling people out for the smallest things. And because there's this feeling of if you know, there's somebody else out there that will check all the boxes, but that's crazy. There's, that's that's not how it works. So I love that you, you know, found love in this place that you might not have, or you know, if you hadn't explored other things are gone beyond the normal, you know, boundaries that other people might have set. So that makes me really happy.

Arlene
Yeah, and I think part of this issue that we have right now is the plethora of people that are available for us online, has created this mentality of the bigger better deal, and people won't settle on anything. So it's Paradox of Choice. And that's why people are spinning their wheels, or getting exhausted and having to get off and wait and take time off. And so much time is wasted with this mentality, as opposed to really genuinely giving someone a fair shot and not looking to rule them out. But rule them in

Taly
Rule people in, I like that.

Laura
Yeah, I feel like that could be the name of a great podcast. Yeah, and I definitely appreciate this concept that you're sharing of exactly that of ruling people in of not focusing on the negatives would rather focusing on the positives. In your blog post Decoding Three Beliefs that Keep Accomplished Women Single, you write about many people being of the belief that love will come to them when they least expect it or when they stop looking for it. And this was actually something that I believe we were kind of talking to this a little bit earlier about, you know, fortune favors the bold and serendipity is something that you can create more instances of in your life. But you say that like most things in life, few things just come to you, you know, sure you can stumble into your soulmate in the cereal aisle. And that sounds really great. And it sounds like a really wonderful meet cute, but is it realistic? And so could you explain some of your thoughts on that belief and where it can go wrong?

Arlene
Yeah, I think that pretty much everything that you want in life that is of importance requires effort, and energy. And I believe that too often, I would say women in particular, have been indoctrinated into thinking that just sit, just wait when you least expect it is going to happen. And not too many things in life happen that way. And so about 10% of the women maybe a little bit higher these days, are actually taking action and making things happen for themselves and not just waiting and leaving it to chance. People talk about luck, Oh, she's so lucky she met her guy or whatever. No luck is when preparation meets opportunity as Seneca, as a quote from Seneca, and I firmly believe that so even if your significant other you might meet at a grocery store, it still requires effort in making eye contact, establishing a conversation, asking questions, you have to do something you can't, you know, it makes me crazy, because this is what's constantly being told to people. And I am a firm believer that you need to make it happen for yourself, or you're going to go a long time and give up on a lot of things, whether it's children or marriage or settling. That's what starts to happen later on as you feel like, oh, gosh, this is not happening for me. And I'm trying to help women avoid that in particular. And of course, men as well.

Taly
That makes so much sense. And I think you know, you're right, we are trained to think things will just fall into our lap. And I think one reason that we sort of like embrace this and latch on to it is because it serves as like a protection from rejection. Because it's easier to say I'd rather wait for that to happen, I'd rather wait for fate, even if it means waiting forever, then face rejection from something I've poured time and effort into. And so I'm wondering if you have any advice for overcoming the fear of rejection and getting rid of that mindset that true love should just fall into our laps.

Arlene
I believe that when it comes to dating, we need to eliminate the word rejection. Because really, it's all a self selection process. And that's the dance that we're signing up for. When you're in the dating scene, you're going to self select and decide whether or not someone's good, you know, or they're not good, but the right partner for you. And they too will have that option. And every step of the way, that needs to be something that you know is part of the process. And instead of taking it as a rejection, I know that's easier said than done. But a lot of times we get caught up in this idea that we we decide we want someone in our lives. But realistically, if we take away the emotion, I know that's hard to do. Do you really want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you? And so if people are a little bit more diligent about their filtering system and their decision making process and really vetting someone before they allow all those emotions to flood, because once you're in that state of limerence, or all these hormones are going through your body, you're basically the equivalent of a drug addict. Like drugged up, you're not thinking well, your amygdala has been hijacked, and you're no longer really reasoning about the person that you're involved with. So if you can do more vetting upfront, before those emotions kick in, you're going to make better partner choices. And if those people opt out, you need to be okay with that you need to go into it with the mindset. And I think when people stop believing in this fairy tale, they then are a lot more practical about and understand, hey, this is what the dating process is. We're all self selecting and deciding, you know, and that's what it is. I hope that helps.

Laura
I think it does help and it reminds me of a shift that I had in my dating life where I would often kind of go and meet a bunch of people and I would, I would always feel so sad when we're you know, quote unquote, rejected when someone didn't like me and I... it took me a really long time to learn something that you very aptly said just a minute ago. That you know, do you really want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you? Everybody deserves to be with someone who wants to be with them, you know, someone that you want to be with who wants to be with you. And I think you're absolutely right. It's a really hard mindset, especially when you've gone on, you know, 10, dates, 20, dates, 50, dates, 100 dates, and you're not, it feels like you're not getting any closer. But it really does just take one. And you know, you've been doing this for a long time. And you've probably seen countless different obstacles that people have to navigate when they're trying to find love. And for a lot of people, you know, mindset winds up playing a huge role when it comes to developing meaningful connections. And this is, I think, kind of what we're talking about a bit here. So what sort of mindset have you found to be the most beneficial for finding love? And what advice do you have for people looking to ship their own?

Arlene
I think it's really important to have a growth mindset. And what that does is, for example, if you're taking an approach, and that approach doesn't work, rather than believing that there's something wrong with you, you can believe that, oh, let me try a different approach. And I think the heavy emotions come when we malign ourselves, and we say, well, there's something wrong with me. No, you're, you're fine, you're doing fine. All you need is maybe a better approach, maybe look outside of yourself, sometimes the mind as, as Einstein said, the mind that created the problem can't solve the problem. So maybe go to a dating coach. And that's not a pitch, I'm just, I really believe that some people need some real skills that that are outside of them, to have a better approach in their dating, you know, the the ways that they date, they also need help with shifting their paradigm about dating so that they don't go into that low vibration. Because when you start to get really down on yourself, you tend to attract people in that way. So there's so many little things that go into this, but it's so doable. And I've worked with couples, and well, not couples, per se, but I worked with a woman who I was coaching, and I brought her a match as a matchmaker. And they went on a date, he totally hit it, you know, he loved her from day one. He was like, she's great, she's perfect. She didn't want to go on a second date. And thank God, I was in her life to help her get out of her own way. And she was able to get married with this man down the road. And he's the only person that she met. She's the only person that he met. And then she got married for the first time at the age of 60.

Laura
Wow, that's incredible.

Taly
That is incredible. So hearing you talk about some of this, and how we kind of get into our own ways and malign ourselves, it makes me also think about how when we're dating people, and when we go out on these dates, we're so worried about, do they like me? What am I doing wrong? And we don't even think about, do I like them? What are they doing that might be wrong. And so I think there's a real key and shifting our mindsets to kind of focusing on, on the things that are important to us. And also kind of remembering that if it's not a fit has nothing to do with us personally. It's just, you know, you're just not a fit. And that's normal. And that's okay. It's a process of exploration and getting to know people. And it doesn't have to mean anything more than, it just wasn't a fit. So in any case, it just, my mind started to kind of think about that, and kind of as you were talking about it.

Arlene
Yeah, one of the biggest mistakes that people do when when they're in this dating process, is that they audition. They want to be liked. They want to, you know, have that person connect with them, and they start to audition, and then they lose their authenticity. And rather than doing that, just build common ground, see if there's chemistry, if there's, as I said, common ground, or do you have aligned core values? Do you have similar life goals? energetically? Do you feel like you're similar? Birds of a feather flock together this business of opposites attract? They may attract but they won't last.

Taly
Shifting to Shresth and Courtney's date, what were some exchanges between them that you saw as especially positive?

Arlene
I think what I loved about the way they communicated was I think their energy was kind of similar. You know, sometimes somebody speaks really fast and the other ones very slow. I thought energetically they were kind of on the same pace. And they were very cordial with one another.

Laura
And were there any areas where you felt things could have been improved in some way?

Arlene
Yes, I really believe that they almost went down a rabbit hole about what they do. So there was you know, obviously people I get nervous on first dates. And sometimes they talk about one thing too much instead of moving on to the next topic, and I felt that in the beginning, and maybe it's just my opinion, because I'm more of like, get to the point go to them. So of course, I'm injecting this is not the science based Arlene talking, I think there was too much of the same topic, even though I don't think that it was something they really wanted to talk about. It was just something that came up. And in some instances, he goes into the explain mode, like he's trying to explain things to her. And sometimes that comes off as, what they call these days, mansplaining. I don't know if she perceived it that way. But that could happen when you go into that. And I believe that he was very competent, and warm, but maybe more competent than warmth. And so charisma is like a real balance of competence and warmth. And there's a really great book that just came out that talks a lot about that. It's called Cues. But yeah, she asked one question. And it was a question to garner something negative about him, as opposed to something positive? And that was the question. Number, I'm forgetting the exact question. But it was something about a challenge, something challenging. I don't know if you guys remember. And so he was, so he went into, and he was very sincere and open about whatever that challenge was. But there was no other question about what are the positives? So I hope, I don't know. I hope that helps.

Taly
Yeah. Now I guess I'm curious now based on kind of those those thoughts, what advice would you give them moving forward? If they did match and decided to keep exploring the connection?

Arlene
Well, that was a first date, correct?

Taly
Yes, that was their first date.

Arlene
What advice would I give them, I think, talking a little bit more about themselves, and not so much what they do, or what they like more about who they are, I think, trying to get on common ground. As far as those things go. And that's where you start to figure out if you have similar core values, or if you have similar life goals. I think a lot of times people get caught up with activities. And they believe that activities having similar activities in common that that makes for a good partnership, but it has nothing to do with it. In fact, when people do things for the first time together, it increases the likelihood that you fall in love. Right? If you're doing something new, and something new that neither one of one of you has done. So like if you have a couple, and things are getting boring in the relationship, they should just put together a bucket list of things that neither one has done before. And that in and of itself could change the trajectory of the relationship. So for them, I would just be more authentic, and focus a little bit more on who they are as human beings and not so much on the activities or what they like to read or what they do for a living, and more about what what makes, what they're passionate about what lights them up, and those kinds of things.

Taly
I love that you said that, you know, hobbies and activities aren't necessarily just because you have them in common, like the best foundation. And that isn't to say, you know, you're both runners, you're not going to you know, that's not a good thing. But I do think that in dating, people are like, oh, I need somebody who loves hiking, because I love hiking, I need somebody who does this. And then we people, other people put things on their profile, because they're like, I want people, I want to attract people who like these things, even though I don't necessarily like I feel like I need to fit that mold because people want to hang out with people who like doing the same things. And that isn't the best foundation for a long term partnership. Yes, like, it's great to be able to do things together. But, you know, as you've been saying, it's really about that alignment of values and your ability to communicate. And it shouldn't matter if you know, one person loves one activity and the other person doesn't, you don't need to explore every single thing together, you know, and do all of those things together. And I love the advice of doing things that neither of you have done as part of kind of, you know, an existing relationship or even a new one. So I really, really love all of all of that thought, Arlene.

Arlene
Well, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, there's science and there's data to prove that this is effective. And if an activity, and I want to go back to the running part, because yeah, if your activities are connected to your core values, then they matter. So perhaps someone who runs is, has a core value about health and fitness and those things should you know, ideally, you want them to be aligned, because it could be a reason for issues down the line. So, um, but and again, also, you don't have to do everything with your significant other and you shouldn't. It's important. long term relationships do well, when each individual has lives, and then they have a life together.

Laura
That really reminds me of Esther Perel, I remember I was listening to, I think it was a podcast that she was on. And she was essentially talking about how, essentially, right now in today's day and age, we expect our partner to be everything, our lover, or confidant, our friend, our, you know, exploring buddy, the person that we do everything with, and we rely on them for essentially all of these buckets of needs. And we're not really diversifying that across friends. Whereas historically, you generally had more people in your social circle that fit these different molds and needs. And so I just think that really goes to what you're saying about how you can have more success and more fulfillment by being two individual people that also have a shared life together. Because I think that also gives you, you know, that layer of interest in the other person, it gives you something to talk about something that keeps things interesting, it's new, it's novel, I was reading a book recently about when your mind goes on autopilot. And essentially, when you're younger, everything and time in particular feels like it's going really slowly because everything is a new and novel experience. And because of that, our brain actually slows down time for us. And then we, as we get older, we start to say, Oh, I've seen this before I've done this before, I've seen this, I've done this, I've seen this, I've done this. And so because of that, our brain just puts everything on autopilot. And so it's that common thought of: Have you ever driven somewhere and then realized that you were there all of a sudden, and you just missed the entire drive? And the recommendation at that point is to create, like new neural pathways in your brain by taking different routes, because that makes it new, novel and intriguing. And so I just, I really appreciate that insight that you shared about being able to, you know, have, have things that you'd like to do together, create that bucket list to try new shared experiences, but also be your own individual person.

Arlene
Yeah, I think that's I love that. I love everything that you just said, I think novelty is the key to life in terms of arousal and, and just spicing things up. Just bring novelty in. And you know, people say well, we, we sort of our relationship fell apart, or we grew apart. And I think a lot of it just has to do with people not checking in. But if you're doing everything together, it's essential for you to have a life and the other person to have a life. And to check in check in regularly. Talk every day, spend 10 minutes a day talking, what are your dreams? What what do you love? What book did you read that you want to share with your significant other, what experiences you've had? Not just talk about, who's taking out the garbage, who's buying the groceries, not maintenance, but more about our dreams and our goals. And I my husband and I do a, an annual bucket list that we update things that we want to do. And we keep it interesting, because that's the key to life.

Taly
Love that

Laura
I'm curious to know what's the most recent bucket list item

Taly
I want to know, too. Or your favorite bucket list item, both.

Arlene
So I had traveled to Europe several times, but I never gone to Italy. And for some reason I was holding off because I really wanted to have that special someone in my life. And he had been to Europe many times never to Italy. So we went and took two weeks. And it was amazing. We hit every possible place, you know, we can go in that timeframe. And it was wonderful. And we do things like that. We bought a motorcycle a couple of years ago before COVID. We wanted to do an RV and do trips around the country in an RV. So we did that. And we were always, we always were always adding to our bucket list and doing things and neither one of us has done before.

Laura
I feel like I'm gonna add some of those to my bucket list now.

Taly
I'm going to start a bucket list. I know right? Like I'd like to start my bucket list, and then I'm gonna add these things. So I have the million dollar question for you, Arlene. Date in a Blink, what did you think: did they match and why or why not do you think that?

Arlene
This is such a tough question. I don't know that they matched. I think because, as I mentioned, and I wish I can remember the details because I'm it's just slipping my mind. The one question that she asked to garner something negative, it was just almost like a way of confirming to herself that she was going to rule him out. I don't know. Maybe I'm reading into that and I may be completely wrong. But I don't know. I don't think I don't think so.

Taly
I have to go back and re listen to this because I'm trying to remember what the question is too. And it's not coming to mind.

Arlene
It was something that then he went into a story. It's, you know, speaking about himself in, you know, whatever. It was like a challenge that he has an Oh, what is it about yourself that you want to change something like that.

Taly
Okay. Okay. Well, I guess I'll share my guess. So I wasn't sure if they would match or not, I thought the conversation was pretty smooth. But I didn't necessarily know, you know, are they both fully here for it? So I was kind of on the fence. So I know that's sort of a cop out answer. But that's mine. Laura, will you reveal what actually happened as the host of the date?

Laura
Yes, I'm happy to reveal what happened. So they did indeed match, they had a little bit of back and forth between the two of them, to the point where even we talked with Shresth after the fact. And he had mentioned that when they were exchanging messages she had shared that Dear John was, I believe, I don't know if he said her favorite movie or her favorite book, but he ended up watching it so that he could relate to her, which I thought was really, really sweet. However, timing wasn't super great for the two of them. So they did fizzle out. But we are happy to report that there was at least that initial match, and they decided to say, You know what, I might have had reasons for ruling you out, but I'm gonna see if we can continue this to maybe rule each other in at least for a little while.

Arlene
Okay, that's, that's great. And I think it's great for people to just really give somebody a shot before they totally decide.

Laura
Yeah, totally agree with that. All right. So as we wrap up, a question, we love to ask all of our experts: do you have any words of wisdom or advice you'd like to share with our audience?

Arlene
Well, I would say this: never give up on love. There is a lid to every pot.

Taly
Aww

Arlene
Just really get to know yourself. So that then you can make a selection of someone who is a match for you. Don't try to be something that you're not, just be who you are, and find someone who is going to match who you are. That's what I would say.

Laura
I don't know if it's like chills or tears. I am obsessed with that advice and as a hopeless romantic myself, I definitely appreciate you sharing that advice with our audience.

Taly
I was really excited by the phrase a lid to every pot. I think it's a really beautiful reminder that, you know, your lid is out there. And sometimes it feels like you're, you're you know in this thrift store, you know, searching for that other piece of the, the cooking gear but, and it can be really stressful and you can find a lot of things that don't fit but you just have to keep hunting. It's out there.

Laura
Arlene for our final question, how can our audience get connected with you?

Arlene
I am on all social media. So feel free, Instagram in particular @ArleneWashburn. And you can find me at AV Connexions as well. But @ArleneWashburn on Instagram is usually the best way to get ahold of me quickly. And yeah, reach out.

Taly
We'll include that in the show notes for any listeners who want to check it out.

Arlene
Thank you!

Laura
Arlene, thank you so much for joining us today. It was such a pleasure.

Arlene
Likewise. Thank you it was it was really a great conversation and hopefully we'll do it again soon.

[ad]

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Laura
Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Date in a Blink, where we're hosting Shresth and Courtney for a Blink Date.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice on the speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging, our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's Blink Date, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

[sponsored content]

Laura
​​Today's date prompt comes from Modest Notes, a brand creating products for adults to improve their communication skills for the purpose of developing more meaningful intimate relationships. Visit www.modestnotes.com to check out their decks!

Laura
We're here on Date in a Blink today with Shresth and Courtney, I'm going to let you two dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question: are you typically drawn to the villain or the hero in TV shows and movies, and if so, what is one of your favorite characters?

Courtney
Okay, well, hi Shresth, first of all. Um, I feel like I'm typically drawn to the hero, not so much the villain. Um, but to be honest, I don't actually watch that much TV. How about you?

Shresth
What about books or other materials?

Courtney
I mainly, I guess I listened to a lot of podcasts. And when it comes to books, I only really read books for uni, I guess.

Shresth
Alright, fair enough. Um, hello, Courtney. I am a bit of a mixed person. I don't mind understanding both perspectives, because I like to look at what's the modus operandi of each person, and why they are that way. So I prefer to look at the heroes first, but then also look at the villains for an example. So you'd have seen the Joker that would have been going around, but they sort of tried to humanize him in the latest movie, if that makes sense.

Courtney
Okay, yeah.

Shresth
And that really attracted a lot of audiences that, Oh, there is this whole side to why the Joker is the Joker. So I prefer to understand the character and why they are and how they operate.

Courtney
Yeah, I like that perspective. Who would you say is one of your favorite characters?

Shresth
That's a tough one.

Courtney
Or favorite movie of yours?

Shresth
Favorite movie of mine would be Fight Club.

Courtney
Okay, no, I haven't seen that. Interesting. Okay,

Shresth
Have you, have you, have you read the book?

Courtney
No, I've heard of it. But yeah, I haven't. Haven't seen it.

Shresth
I'd recommend the book first then the movie.

Courtney
Okay. All right. Interesting. With another things, that book is usually better.

Shresth
Yes, and no. Sometimes there's a novelization of books that also occur. So it's very interesting how much is left out in movies, and then they try and capture that in a book rather than that being the source material.

Courtney
Yeah. Okay. Very interesting.

Shresth
All right. What is your favorite character favorite book that you've read?

Courtney
Oh. I like a lot of Nicholas Sparks.

Shresth
Fair, fair enough. Fair. Yeah.

Courtney
For movies, though, one of my favorites would be Me Before You.

Shresth
Oh, really?

Courtney
Yeah.

Shresth
Is that because of Emilia Clarke, or...?

Courtney
No, I just really love the movie in general. Yeah, I love, love that movie. Also, Dear John is one of my favorites. I guess you could say I like a lot of sad movies.

Shresth
Sorry, could you please repeat that?

Courtney
I guess you could say I like a lot of sad movies.

Shresth
Oh, that's... they're not sad. They're definitely real. Like Me Befor You is a very, you know, it could happen to anyone kind of story. I haven't, I haven't seen or read Dear John, so I would not know what that's about, but I'm aware it's got Channing Tatum in it. And...

Courtney
Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Shresth
The other girl but yeah, can't remember.

Courtney
Yeah, no, it's a good movie.

Shresth
Fair enough!

Courtney
Yes. So what do you do? Are you studying? Are you working full time?

Shresth
I am working full time as a quality assurance engineer. So I work on prototypes of hardware and software.

Courtney
Oh, wow. And what does that actually involve, if you didn't mind me asking?

Shresth
That's all right. So I'd give you a wonderful example to help transition it a bit easier. It's imagine any device that you have, it's running some sort of code, and to make sure all of that code is up to scratch. And it's doing what it has to do, whether it's the hardware or the software. So your iPhone may have gone through six months of development that no one really gets to know. But I being on the cycle would know what it goes through. So that's my job.

Courtney
Oh, wow. Very interesting.

Shresth
I hear you're in university. Is that a correct assumption?

Courtney
Yeah, so I'm doing my my fifth year studying I'm doing my honors in psychology. And I'm working as a disability support worker.

Shresth
Oh, wow. That's impressive.

Courtney
Yeah, it's it's it's rewarding. I enjoy it. I really love my job. But I've really been doing that for just over a year now. But yeah, I really, really love it you, you get to know clients really well, their families. Um, yeah. It's a great job.

Shresth
What's the toughest thing about your job? If you don't mind me asking,

Courtney
Oh, I would say it can be quite emotionally taxing. And no matter what, like, no matter what mood you're in for that day, or what's happening, you know, outside of work, I like to ensure that I'm being 100% present with my clients and giving them all my energy and focus time. So I guess that can be quite, sometimes quite difficult to kind of switch off from other things that's going on. And also, after a shift sometimes I can be quite emotionally drained at the end of the day. But yeah, but still, you know, I still love it. Yeah, I wouldn't change the work for now it suits well with uni. And I think it's just helped me a lot with people skills and having a whole different perspective on life. And, yeah. Yeah...

Shresth
You sound like a very empathetic person.

Courtney
Yeah, I'd like to say that I am. Definitely. Yeah, I try to be, I guess

Shresth
I would assume you have to be very agile, and also resilient to do what you have to do.

Courtney
Yeah, definitely. But yeah, I think in life, that's one thing that I really want to, if I can do anything, it's to help people and just be as kind as possible to people.

Shresth
Oh, look, that's a very noble idea. It's, I think, you know, I know people say, nice is, you can't be too nice or being nice is too overrated. But the world is getting a bit dark and cold. So it's nice to see that.

Courtney
Yeah, definitely. What would you say is one of your best qualities?

Shresth
I'm a great listener. At least I've been told that. I would not know if I agree to it or not. But I do like to listen with the intent of just listening. Not with an intent to response.

Courtney
Okay. That's..

Shresth
Because when someone's trying to express themselves, there's definitely emotions, objectives, ideas. There's a whole thought process that's involved. And I like to try and understand that.

Courtney
Yeah.

Shresth
And a good pickup you would have just seen now is when you were talking about your job, I could sense that whole empathy side to you.

Courtney
Yeah,

Shresth
And, um, pick that up immediately. And then tell you about it. So that's sort of the person or at least one of the best qualities people say I have.

Courtney
Yeah, I think that's a really good quality to have definitely.

Shresth
The the other I'd say is effective communication.

Courtney
Yeah

Shresth
Not... Not a lot of people can say what's in their head. Yes, there's a limit to how much we process. No one is brutally honest with streams of consciousness. But sometimes you do have to work very quickly in your head to respond to a question.

Courtney
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. That's true. And what's something maybe that you're wanting to work on or improve?

Shresth
I sort of have, I mean, we all have baggage, let's be real. And I am in therapy for that. So I'll put I'll be very upfront on that. But I think I sort of get in my, in the path of my own happiness.

Courtney
Yeah. Is that —

Shresth
— myself, last and I put everyone else up first. So that's something that I've been working on recently.

Courtney
Ah, no, that's good. That's something that's very important to work on. Definitely.

Shresth
So what are your plans after university? Do you consider going full time into your current job that you're working on?

Courtney
Um, so after honors I'll finish, like, June or July next year, then I'll have to do a master's for two years. And then I'm considering going into developmental educational psychology possibly. I was at the start of my, well it's out of this year, I was considering forensic psychology but I think this job has kind of made me lean more towards, towards educational developmental. Yeah, I think that'll just suit me a bit more and my passions, and yeah.

[Smooth audio sound]

Laura At this point in the date, I jumped in to let them know that their date had ended and let them say their farewells.

[sponsored content]

Laura
Shresth and Courtney started off on very different pages – literally! Courtney seems to be a bit more into sentimental and romantic genres, whereas Shresth has an interest in transgressional fiction. The two had a really great ebb and flow, where they asked each other questions and answered in earnest. I was really taken aback when Shresth commented on Courtney’s empathetic nature and, I’ll be honest, laughed a little when he said his best quality, as he’s been told by others, is how well he listens. That exchange was a little on-the-nose but in the best possible way.

Do you think Courtney and Shresth will continue sharing stories? Listen in on next week’s episode where we’ll chat with an expert about the date and reveal how their story unravels.

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Laura
For today's episode of dating a blink, we'll be chatting with Coach T. Anthony, an online dating expert with over 15 years of experience and a background in behavioral science and behavioral analysis interviewing. Coach D is the author of the book The Art of Online Seduction, a frequent podcast guest and an active voice on social media. He is committed to ensuring that his clients find success in the often chaotic world of online dating, and ultimately hopes to change his clients relationship status from Netflix, Oreos, and sweatpants to "I am taken." Coach T, it's a pleasure to finally chat with you.

Coach T
Absolutely. I'm so excited to be here. This should be fun.

Laura
So let's go ahead and jump right in, shall we?

Coach T
Let's do it.

Laura
So on a podcast episode with fellow dating coach, Jennifer Hurvitz, you emphasize the importance of having a stellar profile, one that includes professional photos and all since Blink sets people up on blind voice dates, it removes all of that. So what are your thoughts on blind dating in the online frontier?

Coach T
I love it. I mean, anything that's going to spice things up, I'm all about. So, you know, you know, everyone can have a curated profile, that's fine. But, you know, it all comes down to what is your life like? Do you have a curated life to speak about? You know, or do you have a purpose and a passion in life? Do you have hobbies, you know, what keeps you busy? All this stuff still needs to be communicated articulately? On any date, whether it's a blind date, or date in person. So, you know, I think the curated profile these days is a little overrated.

Taly
And that might actually answer some of my question, what are some ways to put your best foot forward when you don't have a curated profile to lean on?

Coach T
Well, just make sure that you can speak articulately about your life, right? Because you spend so much, we spend so much, as an online dating coach, I spent so much time getting all the information out of them and putting it on a profile. Right? But that's great, if it's on a profile, then you can, it's obviously real, and it's obviously what you're living day by day. So you just need to be able to speak about it, make sure that you have, you know, some questions that you want to ask people or make sure that, you know, you understand what people might be asking you. Right. And, you know, it just it's it's one of those things where, you know, what is interesting about you, you got to ask that that question and then be able to answer it.

Taly
It's it's a funny question to ask because in many ways, a lot of us are so shy and don't like sharing or bragging about ourselves and might feel like, or just opening up, it can be really hard, uh, and so kind of an impromptu follow up question. How would you recommend people kind of prepare themselves to put themselves out there in that way?

Coach T
Preparation I get, I have all my clients, make sure that they have questions on the go from the hip, ready to rock and roll, which absolutely helps the shyness, because the one thing that we nobody likes is that awkward silence, right. And that's an awkward silence. I think happens because both parties can be a little nervous. And you might not be as prepared as you should be, right? The awkward silences are going to happen. That's when you whip out these, you know, you know, curated questions or prepared canned questions that you can start a conversation with. And you always want to make sure it's an open-ended type question and not a yes or no question. Right? Like, the one that I love is what keeps you busy. Right? And not, you know, where they're going to be able to say yes or no, they have to now explain and then that gets you into a different conversation. Right?

Taly
Mhmm, yeah.

Laura
I'm imagining someone asking that question. And someone going "Yes."

Coach T
I'm sure it's happened. Yes.

Laura
Yeah. But absolutely has if there's a will, there's a way,

Coach T
Right?

Laura
Yeah. I also love that you preemptively answered one of the questions I had, which was I was gonna ask you, what's one of your favorite questions to ask someone or just, you know, whip out at a party kind of thing. So I love that you preemptively answered that. Kind of in the absence of photos and thinking about the date specifically with Samantha and Austin. Was there anything in their conversation that made you think "that probably made for a really good first impression"?

Coach T
I absolutely love this date. I almost felt dirty. I felt like I was sitting next to him in a in a cafe and listening in on their date. And it was just such a fun date. I mean, I think both of them made a good first impression by not falling into the trap of doing a job interview style date. I think They both went back and forth. And neither one of them stepped on the other by talking too much or, or things like that, of course, you have to ask questions while you're on a date, but they did it in such a really good flow, right? It wasn't, it didn't feel like it was canned, it didn't feel like you stepped into a job interview for the county position. So I think both of them had a good first impression by just being genuinely interested, and getting to know one another.

Taly
Love that that's one of my favorite things, um, when listening to dates, when I hear that the folks are actually listening to what the other person is saying, and asking questions about it, or following up, or even, you know, hosting dates, where folks will, you know, be three minutes away from a conference topic that they raised. And then they'll say, Oh, actually, you mentioned this earlier, and it shows that they're really listening and engaged with the other person. So I love that. And I agree, we definitely have that in this date. And I have another question for you. So online dating is your area of expertise. But like anything else, online dating has its challenges. What are some aspects of the dating process that you would say, are complicated by online dating? And how do you think people can try to overcome those complications?

Coach T
I think a lot of people fall into the trap of seeing it as a buffet style, dating apparatus, so to speak. So they feel as if they're not going to be able to find someone, because there's always going to be someone, you know, better on the other side, or more things to choose from the buffet, right? And that's always gonna happen. You know, I, I like online dating, because of one thing is that when you walk into a bar, or an event or venue, and you find someone attractive, the first thing that comes to your mind isn't "am I going to get rejected?" it's, "are they single? Are they married? Are they even available? Would they even like me?" right? Online dating now eliminates all that for the most part, unless they're lying, right? But you don't have to worry about whether or not they're, they're single or married or whatever, for the most part. Again, you can happen. But, but that is, that kind of is what I like about online dating, you already are in a pool of people that are like minded and are single and, you know, hopefully looking for the same thing. And obviously, people can look for serious and some people go look for casual, but you can definitely filter those out. So that's kind of my take on the whole thing. You know, the good and the bad.

Laura
But when you're talking about this, it reminds me of this concept I'm sure you're very familiar with it's kind of the paradox of choice.

Coach T
Mhm, yeah, absolutely. It can get dropped in that we get trapped in that. Because back in the day, when you got hooked up with a friend of a friend or family member, there was no online dating. You took more time to get to know them, because there was no, we there was no such thing as a paradox of choice. Yeah, there was "oh my gosh, I get to meet someone new and go out with him." And, and you spent weeks, maybe months hanging out and dating, where online dating, it's like, after three conversations, you know, I do have more choice. So let me just get rid of that person. And it's almost like a tumbleweed where I could do better. I could do better. I could do better. And a lot of people do fall into that trap, unfortunately.

Laura
Yeah, I think that's a really great, a great, a great point to bring up. And I'm curious if we dig in a little bit further on that. So yeah, you know, back in the day, quote, unquote, whenever that was, you know, people were spending more time actually going through the dating and the courting process to get to know somebody before really making those decisions. And also the, the pools around them were much smaller, because you're generally only dating within your town at that point. So I'm curious in your experience, and as you've seen, online dating evolve, do you, do you think that that's a benefit or do you think that that's a detriment to online daters, today, or somewhere in between?

Coach T
Which, which part is a detriment?

Laura
Essentially not taking additional time to get to know people? Not necessarily the paradox of choice, I guess. Yeah. It's a mixture of the paradox of choice coupled with not really taking the time. You know, the second that something happens, like up on to the next.

Coach T
Well, I look, I I like progress. No matter what area of life we're in. Online dating I see more progress than I see more pros than cons. So it yes, it could possibly be a detriment, but we all have to adjust to progress, right? So yes, we're gonna vet people a little bit more slowly and quickly at the same time, if that makes any sense. But you know what, when it comes to online Dating and dating back in the day, um, online dating, we're just basically throwing out maybe three, three things that this person needs to have, in order to keep continuing to talk to him, or, or releasing them into the wild. So they could talk to somebody else, where, you know, back in the day is kind of, okay, let's see if this molds, let's see if this changes, you know, once we get to know each other, right? Maybe, you know, this thing that I want, it isn't so important, because he, he or she's got so many other different qualities, that just isn't happening in online dating. We basically have, okay, are you this? You know, do you want to get married? Do you want to have kids, you know, you have your, your things, your list that you want to go through, and, you know, and if they don't pass it, then you're onto the next one. And sometimes we can get caught up in and just eliminating people without actually getting to know them, and, and are we really ranking our list of non negotiables on a scale of one to 10? I always tell my clients like, Hey, if you want this, this and that on a scale of one to 10, where is it? If it's a 10, then scream it from the rooftops stick to it. But if it's really not a 10, then you need to, you need to understand that. So maybe you can get to know somebody a little bit better on a longer timeframe, because maybe you both can compromise on something. Right.

Taly
So that is one very common mistake. I agree. I'm curious if there are other common mistakes you see when it comes to online dating, and any advice you might have for steering clear of those mistakes.

Coach T
I think the number one thing that has creeped up in the last year is negativity. I mean, someone could have the best photos, and the absolute best curated profile. But you know, at the end, it says basically, hey, if you are a Trumpster, swipe, swipe left. Or if you like Joe Biden, you're an idiot, swipe left, and they just get they just basically burn their entire bridge with anybody. Because two things when it comes to negativity, especially like when you're utilizing politics, is that one you're going to the person for you is going to look at that and go Well, I'm I'm liberal, you're liberal, but you're a hateful liberal. I don't want that in my life, right? Because there are ways to say that online, you could say, "Hey, I lean to the left hope you do, too." There's, you know, there's ways to do it. But I'd say 90 90% of people who speak of politics, it's always in a negative way. And it's like, I don't want to talk I only want to come close to someone who thinks a different way than me, right? So the person for them is sitting there going, okay, that's not for me at all. If they want to sit at a in a different tone maybe. And then the second thing is, is that now all you're doing is attracting another toxic, hateful person that believes in your politics. And now you're going to absolutely come Yeah, that's the compatibility you're going to have when you're dating. When you go on that date, you're gonna talk about politics for 30 to 60 minutes, and all the other compatibles are out the door, because you're both are in this toxic cycle of hate for the other side. And that's one of the biggest things I see within the last year creeping up in online dating.

Taly
Question for you. Because, you know, piggybacking off the conversation about folks and how they think about negotiables, and non negotiables and if it's a 10 or two, if some of these things are 10s, but you know, it can create this negative perception of others, how would you recommend folks filter for that, while not necessarily, you know, entering the dating world with that negative mindset about, you know, the whole subsection of people that might not meet that non negotiable for them?

Coach T
Well, I think dating is is all about balance, right? So I always tell my clients look, I don't want to go into a date, or even a conversation or video chat or anything with a list of non negotiables that you need to just weed out, you know, or, or get from this person, right. But what I do want you to do is if you do go out on a date, have one non negotiable question available, you know, because your goal is to make sure that you're having fun, you're connecting with the person. And you know, and that also includes maybe throwing out one nonnegotiable, hey, by the way, nice strike on it, maybe you guys are bowling, a nice strike. Hey, where do you see yourself in five years? Do you see yourself married? Do you see yourself having some kids? And if that's important to you, you really need to get some of these questions out of the way without it being too negative and too overbearing, right? But you also still want to have the pleasure of dating someone and meeting someone new. So I always suggest them to ask that. Because if he if he or she says, Oh, I see myself traveling Thailand for the next 10 years, and really just living off my laptop, and blah, blah, blah, if you want, you know, to build a household to have children, and to get married, that person's not for you. But it doesn't mean you can't connect with them and have a good time and date, because dating is practice. And the more you date, the more you learn.

Taly
I like that mindset. Thinking about it, as you know, let's just go and have a fun time. And in the process, we'll explore whether or not there's something in the future for us. But you don't need to put the future before having fun. If you're just on a first date. Like I really do appreciate that mindset.

Laura
Yeah, it also reminds me of a phrase that always sticks with me that people come into your life for a reason, a season and for life. And it's important to know the difference between those three.

Coach T
Yes, absolutely. I can't tell you how many clients have done this thing. This, this exact thing I just spoke of, and at the end of the date, or through a text or whatever, they say, Hey, I don't think we're, we're going to be on the same page is what we want. And, and you know, the other person agrees, and they're like, but you know what, I kind of got a guy, his name is Mark, he's a good buddy of mine. He wants exactly what I think you two would be great. Right? So dating can not just be fun, but it can also be a great opportunity to make other connections.

Taly
So true.

Laura
Yeah, that's one of those things that I find really heartwarming in the dating space is that, and I think we're actually getting a little bit away from this. I think people and I'm curious what your thoughts are on this one thing I've noticed, at least in my social circles, and being in the dating and relationship space, is people tend to be a bit more personal about their love lives, and they're not as open about sharing it with other people, especially if they're having a hard time with it. And so one thing that I found is that it seems like people aren't really sharing what their experience is like. And so sometimes you might have someone that you meet, and you might think to yourself, oh, you know what, I think this person would be a great connection for this other person in my life. And I find the people I don't think are as quick to make that type of an introduction, as they might have been, you know, maybe 10 ish or so years ago. And I'm curious if that's, I don't know if that's a trend that you've seen or not, or if that's, you know, just my weird social circles?

Coach T
Well I think the trend is, is when you go into a date, making sure that the person is for you going through your checklist and all that. And that's all you're worried about, right? You're not even worried about if we are connecting, if we have fun together any of that. So if you're not doing that, how would you ever, you know, be grounded enough to say, oh, you know what, although this probably isn't my person, Sally is going to, I think would have a great time with this guy. And you know, yada yada, yada. So I think why that's so important. Why I tell my clients fun first, fun first do not go in with your list, leave the list at home. Right? And just get to know them on a on a nice level it because if it's so you know, if you go in and it's just such a cringe feel where you're just always on, on on broken glass, and you're trying to just make sure you say the right thing. It's just being authentic and being yourself and just hanging it all out. Because I just want to connect. And if if they don't like me for who I am, and that's fine. When I'm going out to have fun. I'm not going out there to try and be that perfect person for someone.

Laura
Yeah. Yeah. So I love how many tips you've shared with us already on and some takeaways for people on how they can improve their dating life. But I'm curious, what were some takeaways from Samantha and Austin State in particular that you feel might be helpful to other blind daters.

Coach T
Um, being genuine. Having, showing genuine interest which though those both did, and I know they both had questions for each other, but they flowed nicely. So just kind of being more relaxed and just trying to get to know them. And, you know, maybe poke a little fun and ask questions. I like the, you know, the tortoise and you know, what are you going to name it and there are so many fun little things within that date. That isn't going to happen if you stick to a script. So do not go by a script, just kind of, you know, let it flow and and if you're genuinely interested, you're going to end up asking good questions. The problem is, is when you're already trying to force canned questions in it's gonna throw you off and it's not going to make for a very comfortable date.

Taly
For Samantha and Austin if they didn't match and decided they wanted to meet up for an in person day. What advice would you give them?

Coach T
I think continue on the same plan that they they've been doing that they had a great first 10 minute date, I think it's continue in that same realm, I would, I would say, Hey, you already had a date where you guys were talking. So let's find a first date where you guys can have some actual fun, maybe a little competition, some pool, billiards, darts, bowling, whatever it is that you both enjoy. And see how you guys react together. And in a competitive type environment. Because you always every time you want to go on a date, I don't care if it's a video date, a blind date like this, you always want to up the game, you always want to do something different and, and move and progress in your dating, right? So you don't want to go from a blind date like this to a coffee date. Because this was the coffee date, right? Skip it, let's get let's get to having some fun, right? Maybe go and race some cars around, if you got one of those places, or an adult fun arcade where you can, you know, have some drinks. And also, you know, play some Papa shot, you know, you always got to up it, you always got to keep moving forward and make it even better and better each and every day.

Taly
Trying to think if I've ever gone a date at a bowling alley, or like doing darts or billiards and I don't think I have,

Laura
Whoa, that was my third date with my current partner that I've been with. And it was how we knew we were meant for each other. I love that you suggested that. I think what you're saying before, right, it can bring out your competitive spirit. And you can get to know whether you and the other person can actually play these kinds of games together. And also, I think it tells a lot about someone, are they a sore loser? Do they let you win some times? Are they fun to play with? And I think it's really indicative of someone's overall personality in a way that you otherwise wouldn't get to know. Other than the traditional, you know, how do they treat the waitstaff kind of thing? I feel like you really get to know how someone is when you see them in that competitive environment.

Coach T
Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Totally recommend, totally recommend,

Taly
I'm gonna have to add that into my my date mix.

Laura
Yes, speaking of being in relationships, and something that we're talking about right now a little bit is how you can make the most fun of the relationship. So many of us know just how much fun the honeymoon stage of a relationship can be. But we also know that it doesn't last forever. So what are some pointers you have for daters, when it comes to keeping that spark alive?

Coach T
Well, I love the spark question. It's one of my it's one of my favorites. Because we know a lot of times we don't have that spark, right. And when the time we do have it, it's just so overwhelming. It's not a spark, it's like a lightning bolt. And a lot of times, what happens is, is that, you know, we're both on cloud nine, and we're talking and we're chatting, we're texting all day, all night for days, if not weeks on end, and one of us is going to, to the point is in saying, Oh my God, I don't know how much longer I can keep this up, because I have a life to get back to. Right. But the spark is, so it's so rich, and it's so there. So you really so once you feel that spark, you really need to slow things down. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've heard a client say, Yeah, I had the spark, and the next date that they had after that first date was the very next day, you're gonna burn out this fire, and it's going to be a, it's, it's going to be a catastrophe, because you're not going to have anything left to say, left to do. And, you know, left to to explore, because you have pushed everything in such a small area of time. So if you feel that, go into the restroom, splash your face with some cold water and slow it down. Because that's what you're going to need, you're going to have to have a little cold water on the face wake up call to say, Okay, this is fantastic. Let's let's make sure we spread it out. Let's make sure that you say hey, I have a life and let's text a couple times a week or what have you. And that's how you keep the spark alive by setting those types of standards in the beginning, and not allowing the emotional, emotions to take over and cloud your judgment into allowing it to burn out by spending way too much time. Whether it's together online, texting, or so forth.

Taly
So now, the million dollar question date and a blank. What did you think? Do you think that they matched, Coach T?

Coach T
I do. I mean, I don't see I think for a blind date. That was as good as it gets. Yeah,

Taly
I also thought that they would match and I will flip it over to Laura who was the host for the day to reveal whether or not they actually did

Laura
Your drumroll please...they matched! Yes, yes, I know. It's very exciting. Both of them are having such a good time that after the date, they both said that they felt it was too short and they wanted to keep the conversation going.

Coach T
Hi, I felt the same way. I wanted to hear more.

Laura
I felt so bad when I interrupted their day. I was like, oh, man, I wish that the 10 minutes didn't fly by as quickly as they do, especially the first couple of minutes, people are kind of easing into it getting to know each other. And then really, I think between minute four and five is where people really that's where you can tell you're like, Yeah, this is going somewhere or okay, we're probably gonna end the date soon.

Coach T
Yeah, no doubt. Uh, you you that is absolutely true. I was just, I was in it to win it. I was rooting for both of them. After about four or five minutes, I was just like, This is great.

Laura
Right? We're definitely excited to see and continue to hear how their relationship evolves. And same with other people that have gone through the podcast. So as we wrap up a question, we love to ask all of our experts, do you have any words of wisdom or advice for our audience?

Coach T
Um, yeah, I'll give you my motto. I'll give you my motto. And this, this is for online dating, uh speed dating, blind dating, whatever. Online Dating isn't the thing. You know, dating, going on a blind date? How about this? Going on a blind date isn't the thing. It's the thing that gets us to the thing. And that's a great relationship.

Laura
Love that. Thank you so much for that advice. And thank you so much for joining us today as our final final question, how can our audience get connected with you?

Coach T
Everyone can always find me in my hangout and it's called Instagram. You can find me at @thedatecoach. slide into my DMs. Try not to trip and fall I'm always here to help.

Taly
We slid into your DM so we are very happy. We didn't trip and call on that. We're here today. So thank you.

Coach T
Absolutely. Always fun to be with you guys.

Episode Transcript

Laura
Hello and welcome to today's episode of Date in a Blink, where we're hosting Samantha and Austin for a Blink Date.

Taly
Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on the Date in a Blink podcast, you'll listen in on 10 minute voice on the speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging, our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start, oh, I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating.... Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between, we'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly
Will our handpicked podcast matches find love on these Blink Dates? Or will they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's Blink Date, here's a quick word from our sponsors.

Laura
We're here on Date in a Blink today with Samantha and Austin, I'm going to let you to dive in, but in case it's helpful to get the conversation started, I'm going to leave you with this question. What was the last frivolous purchase that you don't regret?

Austin
Hmm. Well, Samantha, do you have an answer?

Samantha
I want to say something very frivolous, like my tortilla blanket. Because it but it was only like $10. But I love it so much.

Austin
That's our do you become the burrito in the tortilla,

Samantha
Yeah

Austin
that's lovely. I hope corn base tortilla.

Samantha
Um, it looks like a flour tortilla.

Austin
That's okay.

Samantha
But you know, beggars can't be choosers with

Austin
Corn tortilla be a little small. Um, let's see. I got a apple turnover for lunch today. Which I don't know if that's frivolous. Delightful. So delightful. I did. Um, I make some like, interactive art things. And I buy like an outrageous amount of like light toys. So I just got like, a giant disco ball. I don't really know what to do with it. But it seemed fun to have a disco ball.

Samantha
Yeah, that does sound fun. What kind of interactive art do you make?

Austin
There, it's kind of like, hey, it's a silly like, they're just like big light things that you can play with. So like I made, for example, another giant disco ball that you can like press buttons, and it can like light up in different ways or response to music. I'm also making kind of like, bicycles that light up in cool ways. So I'm, I'm kind of just learning it. So I don't really know what to do with it. But yeah, it's just light is so cool. You know, it's it's just so fun.

Samantha
How did you pick up this hobby? If you don't mind me asking.

Austin
I went to a couple parties. And I saw some people who made like big, like cars that light up. And some like people had crazy costumes. And it was just so cool and nice. I don't know, I was like thinking I needed a new project or new something to learn. And it seemed like such a fun thing to do. And it's so easy to get caught up. I don't know, for me, at least to get caught up with hobbies that are like really, like practical or focused on like, business or getting ahead in life versus just doing something that's really fun. So

Samantha
what do you do for a living? Creative?

Austin
Yeah, I designed the apps and websites for fancy companies. Okay. You know, it's easy for the creativity to just become about getting money rather than

Samantha
Right, like engagement and all that.

Austin
Yeah, exactly. versus just having fun. So we're trying to apply it to make fun playful things.

Samantha
That's really cool. I like that.

Austin
How about you? What are you learning?

Samantha
Um, I have really boring hobbies compared to yours. I just, I do a lot of reading. I love baseball. So I go to a lot of baseball games. And then I have a dog so I'm just always with her. I love animals. So I try and do a lot with with my I have two two cats and a dog so I'm always kind of hanging with them.

Austin
What would be your dream pet that you would add to your?

Samantha
Oh man. I want a tortoise so bad. Oh, that's not that hard. Yeah. Well, actually viable and I really want one but I've heard that you have to like, proof your backyard because they'll like dig out and leave and then you'll never find them again.

Austin
I'm sure the same comes with dogs.

Samantha
True. Not my dogs tiny so I have a little Yorkie so she she's [unintelligible]. And she's like very attached to me. So I don't think she'd ever leave

Austin
Interesting. I'd be more worried with a tourist that gets to be you know, like 300 pounds and like,

Samantha
oh my god, that'd be the dream. I would love that. I love I love reptiles, but I like turtles the most.

Austin
Uh huh. Wow, what about reptiles?

Samantha
No, I've always it's it's so strange. I grew up with snakes like with my family always had snakes. So I like reptiles. I think they're cool.

Austin
What are their special snakes that you are closer to than others?

Samantha
Um, I had a little California Rosie Bella. He was very small. And and then we had two boa constrictors, and they were really cool. Like my dad's boa constrictor. He had like, raised from like the egg. So he was like very docile.

Austin
Oh my god. I didn't even think he could raise a snake from an egg

Samantha
I dont know if you're allowed to, but

Austin
Everyone has weird things in their house growing up.

Samantha
Yeah. Whenever I tell people about snakes, I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm like, Yeah, that's snakes. Okay, so around them like your whole life. You don't think they're that big of a deal.

Austin
All right, but you don't want snakes anymore. You want a tortoise?

Samantha
I don't think that I think a lot of reptiles like shouldn't be like pets, if that makes sense. Because they just spend too much time in a cage. And that makes me sad. That is, especially as like a tortoise you can put in your backyard and they can do like whatever they want. Yard.

Austin
Do you have a name picked out for your tortoise?

Samantha
No. So like, all my animals have a Beatles theme, so it would have to be within that theme.

Austin
Okay, but like deep cuts, like it can't just be Lucy, right?

Samantha
No. So like, it all started unintentionally, because my first cat when I adopted him, he was named Ringo by the shelter. And so I just kind of kept it because I think the name ring goes kind of cute for a cat. And then my dog's name is Penny. And then I just got a kitten and I named him George.

Austin
Oh my goodness.

Samantha
So I think it's hilarious that I have two pets named after Beatles named Beatles band members and neither of them are John or Paul.

Austin
Okay, so you just keep with it now.

Samantha
So I'm like, I haven't named him for the popular ones like I don't have a Paul or John but I have George and Ringo. Do you have any pets?

Austin
I don't. I have an outrageous amount of plants. It's not like I’m against animals, I am, I become like little two year old every time I play with the dog. I just like I don't know, I do a lot of camping and running around. And it's a bit intense to bring an animal.

Samantha
Yeah, that's hard.

Austin
Train them to be good when being outside but

Samantha
...could not camp. She's, she's crazy.

Austin
No, it seems like you could just stuff her in a bag.

Samantha
Yeah, she does love to be I have one of those. Like, it's all I call it my Baby Bjorn. And I like put her on my front and she just sits in it.

Austin
Okay, I see that's good.

Samantha
I throw parties at my house and like she would want to be carried the whole time and it was driving me crazy. So I just have this little Baby Bjorn that I put her in now.

Austin
The perfect party accessory. Yeah.

Samantha
So she's just sitting on my front whenever I'm at a party.

Austin
Okay. So um, is all of your reading around pet rearing and I am, animals?

Samantha
No I read mostly fiction. I'm one of those people that only, like I read a lot of fiction. I'm in like a, so for some reason, even though I've always loved to read. I had never read a Stephen King novel until last year.

Austin
Terrfiying

Samantha
I love them. I love say like horror, so I love them. So I'm in like a big Stephen King pick right now.

Austin
Yeah. I go a little too scared. But I do love Stephen King. There's so great.

Samantha
I have to read, like, like when I was reading the shining, I could not read it at night because it woul… and like right now I'm reading The Stand, which is like a little bit too onpoint because it's about a pandemic, basically.

Austin
Oh, yeah.

Samantha
But it's really good. I just his writing is so good. It's hard. Not so good.

Austin
Reading. I totally agree. I only read fiction as well. I feel like if you're going to tell a story, you might as well...everything you can.

Samantha
Well, I'm like I have to live everyday life and I watch a lot of documentaries so I don't want to...Ido read some nonfiction, like about things that I like, like I read the book about Queen, that, the band. There's a there's a book about the Kennedy family that I really want to read. That's probably next.

Austin
Well that that's almost close to fiction anyways. It's such a crazy life they had.

Samantha
Yeah, well, I had I just read 11.22.63 which is the Stephen King novel about the guy that tries to go back in time and save JFK. So I was like, it seems like a good transition to go from that to just learning about the entire Kennedy family

Austin
Lovely.

Samantha
So what what are your favorite books to read?

Austin
I love sci fi books.

Samantha
Okay.

Austin
But it's really that fiction. It's kind of like loose, I just kind of like, uh, you know, twisting our world in a neat way and seeing how it reflects on us. But it's really big, you know, like, you know, like, Mark Twain couldn't have Canet throw that Confederate Yankee in King Arthur's Court. Like that's like, old timey but it's also like the first time travel book. Okay, so it's like it's just and it's also Mark Twain who's just like a hilarious author so

Samantha
yeah, we I was gonna say I feel like because that's how I felt about I was really leery about the Stephen King book about time travel because I'm like, like time travel can get very, like, YA and kind of cheesy Yeah. Older but he did such a good job with it. So

Austin
yeah, he don't get caught up in the details of the travel. You just end up there. Yeah,

Samantha
I feel like that's how you have to do it. Like you can't like explain it too much. Because then it starts to get a little like cheesy.

Austin
Totally

Samantha
And it ends up like the Harry Potter book where they go back in time. Where you have to like hide from yourself basically.

Austin
Totally. I just went on a Octavia Butler kick I just

Samantha
Okay

Austin
All of her books and it's like so incredible it's exactly what you're saying it's like he it's just a great story they don't really get caught up in like the science of it

Laura
This may sound like a weird thing to be jealous of, but I’m infinitely jealous of Samantha’s tortilla blanket and Austin’s creative skills. These two had a winding conversation that covered a wide range of topics: from tortilla blankets and apple turnovers to taking care of reptiles and plants to reading scifi and horror, the eclectic nature of their conversation has me thinking they may, just maybe, join a book club together. Do you think Samantha and Austin will share a membership to a book of the month club, or will they stick with the company of their respective plants and pets? Tune in next week where we’ll chat with an expert about the date and reveal what happened.

Laura
That's all we've got for you today. Shoot us a message on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook @TheBlinkDate or @DateinaBlink to let us know what you think. If you want to try voice-first speed dating from the comfort of your home, download the Blink Date app today. You can also sign up to participate in Date in a Blink by visiting our website at www.theblinkdate.com. In the meantime, thanks for joining us for this episode. We hope you enjoyed listening and look forward to talking with you again next time.

Episode Transcript

Taly
Hello and welcome to today's episode of Dat in a Blink where we're excited to host Kat Vellos, a connection coach and trusted expert on the power of cultivating meaningful friendships. Modern dating sucks, but it doesn't have to. Here on a Date in a Blink podcast you'll listen in on 10 minute voice only speed dates between strangers. The experience is designed to move people beyond mindless swiping and marathon messaging. Our position on online dating? It's time to stop collecting pen pals and start oh. I don't know, going on actual dates.

Laura
Online dating that actually involves dating? Is that even a thing anymore? But for real, dating should be fun. We hope listening in inspires y'all to try new ways of meeting people. Tune in every other week to hear a new couple go on a date. In between. We'll talk to relationship experts about how the date went and what we can learn from it.

Taly Will our hand-picked podcast matches find love on these blink dates, or will they say goodbye to each other after 10 minutes and never look back? Tune in to find out.

Laura
Before we jump into today's episode. Here's a quick word from our sponsors.

Laura
We're here on Dana blink today with Kat Vellos, a connection coach and trusted expert on the power of cultivating meaningful friendships. In her former career as a user experience designer, she research designed and advised on the user experience of countless flows and digital products serving millions of people at companies like Slack and Pandora. With the publication of her books "We should get together" and "Connected from Afar" Kat turned her background in UX design towards combating the loneliness epidemic to help millions of people experience greater wellness and fulfillment through thriving platonic relationships. Her interviews can be found in a variety of publications, including the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Communication Arts, thrive global Yahoo lifestyle and Authority Magazine. Kat is also a sought after speaker who has graced the stages of TEDx San Francisco Design Week Designed for America, the Transforming Loneliness Summit, Rosenfeld Media Design up summit and many more. Kat, thank you so much for joining us. We're honored to have you here with us today.

Kat, thank you so much for joining us today on this podcast, we're really looking forward to being able to talk to you and learning about your expertise and helping people experience greater authentic connections with each other. And you've listened to Mike and Sasha's date, and before we dive into talk about that, we have some other questions for you.

Kat Vellos
Thanks so much for having me on the show. I'm really excited to be here. Looking forward to the conversation.

Laura
In your TED talk. You mentioned something called "tropical small talk" And it seems like you weren't the biggest fan of it – and I definitely don't blame you on that. Is there ever a time when you think small talk is helpful or appropriate? And do you think that small talk is always a means to an end?

Kat Vellos
Yeah, so in the TED talk, you know, the tropical small talk was very context-based, the fact that I was like, in this tropical area, and people were having the same conversation over and over again. And I do think that there are some cases where small talk is fine, right? It's a, it's a brief warm up to a real conversation, hopefully, and emphasis on "brief" and "warm up." If you are going to be just talking to someone for a minute, like let's say you're at a checkout counter in a store. Sure, a little bit of small talk is nice, because it's acknowledging another person's humanity, you don't have a lot of time, you're just getting, keeping it brief. And I think that's fine. I do think that it's also useful when we are using it as a warm up to a real conversation, to sometimes switch up the questions that we ask, and to make sure that we're keeping that small talk as the on-ramp to the conversation, and not actually getting stuck there permanently, like an entire long conversation, like to me like hell would be having to have long conversations that consist of nothing but small talk, like an entire evening of a dinner party or an entire weekend, where all you do is small talk. So I think it's nice to switch it up if it feels appropriate. And even just asking different kinds of questions that are a little bit off the general script that we often use. So typical small talk questions can be things like, "so how are you? What do you do? Where are you from?" You know, things like that. And a small tweak on these can make a conversation a little bit more alive, if you are using that as the type of warm-up to your conversation, and that's actually the topic that you want to talk about. So you might say instead, you know, how was your morning? Or tell me something that you like about the work you do? You know, those are a little bit different than just "What do you do? How are you?" And it makes it clear that you actually are curious to know the answer, and you're not just using this question as a greeting, which is also something that happens very frequently and it's unclear, "is this person actually curious? Or are they just saying hello?"

Laura
Ah, I actually love that you brought this up specifically and especially so soon to, when we first actually got on this call today so I wasn't obviously recording at that time, but I had asked you how you were today and your response was let me tell you something funny that happened this morning. And it's so funny because the second you did that I thought to myself that was a really great way to change the conversation from a simple hello into a whole other conversation about some interesting things that cropped up for us from you sharing that story of something funny that that did happen this morning. So you're definitely a it, so incredible, your expertise with that, it was so natural, sometimes I feel when I try to do things like that it comes off as super awkward. And so I'm curious if you have any tips on how to make it maybe sound a little less awkward.

Taly
I want to hear the funny story. I missed it.

Kat Vellos
So when Laura asked me the question, how are you, right, so let me tell you the funniest thing that happened this morning she said sure. And I said this morning sitting at my desk I picked up my I picked up a glue stick and almost applied it as chapstick. I have my chapstick and my glue stick at the same location and I should probably almost the same shape, and like I took I was like taking off the lid, and I was like that's the wrong one.

Laura
This smells different.

Kat Vellos
Different. Smells different. Looks different. So yeah, I think it's it's really just so much more engaging when we like switch it up. And even if somebody asks you a small question, and you're like, not sure, like, are they just saying hi? Or do they really just want me to say fine? How are you? It's always okay to like, toss back something else, that's fine. Like, maybe something really heartwarming happened this morning, and like, no one's going to start a conversation by being like, "tell me something heartwarming that happened this morning." But it's also okay for you to volley that back and be like, can I tell you about this thing. And usually, when you're excited, or kind of like, lit up about something, somebody else is gonna want to hear about it, they can tell.

Taly
So this actually leads pretty well into another question that we have for you. So we know that, you know, you were kind of inspired to tackle this tropical, small talk issue and other communication challenges. And you created what is called kind of lightning talk events where people are given five minutes to talk about their passion, knowledge and interests, and we find it fascinating. And it sounds like a ton of fun, to be honest. And so we're wondering if you think that this can be translated into the dating setting? And if so how?

Kat Vellos
Yeah, yeah. And to be fair, I don't want to take total credit for inventing the lightning talk format, it's really popular, a lot of organizations do it, a lot of community groups do it. It's just one of those things that's out there, and I think anybody who has the gumption can set up an evening or an event that's a lightning talk. And the way it works is, each person signs up, they get five minutes to talk about anything that they're knowledgeable, or passionate about. And the five minutes are theirs, right, they have the stage, they can do whatever they want with it, whether they include slides, or just tell a story or anything like that. And I think it would be a marvelous activity for dating situations, for example, getting a bunch of singles together who want to meet each other. Because what this gathering does is it gives you a chance to see what somebody is passionate about, again, or knowledgeable about, without having to go on all these one on one separate dates. And the way the gathering is set up. It gives you this explicit permission to show off, you know, what do you know about what are you excited about, and you don't have to worry that you're like hogging up all the attention in a conversation or that you're bragging. Because like, you're you're on stage, it's your time to shine. And so during that night, or that event, like everybody gets to see how everybody else shines. And the cool thing is you get to see how other people interact with others, what their sense of humor is, like, what kinds of questions they ask how their mind works, all of these like rich observations that you can make, when you see someone in a group setting, it's really different than when you're in a one on one date. And it feels like oh my gosh, do I have to perform or have to be perfect. And so it's just a really natural kind of way to interact and get to know other people. And a cool way to make it even more like up the ante for a dating situation is that the host can say, you know, by the end of tonight, at the end of the night, you have to ask one or two other people for their number. At the very end of the night, we're going to have a number switching, like 10 minutes run around and change numbers. And so that way, you know, as you're watching the night, you're like, oh, who do I ask for their number? And then it takes away the pressure of being like, how do I ask that person to hang out? Again, it's like, everyone's gonna do it. There's time for that. And you've had this chance to observe and learn about each other through the night.

Laura
Oh, I really enjoy that idea of essentially, you're going somewhere and the it's really nice when a facilitator creates the space for other people to enter in and to opt in to doing something like that, because it can feel really awkward, I think to do that naturally on your own.

Kat Vellos
Yeah.

Laura
Yeah. And so one thing that I've noticed in conversation is that people sometimes will downplay their passions or their knowledge about something, and it seems that for some talking about themselves can make them really uncomfortable or feel exposed. So I'm curious, how can a person break the ice in situations like this and foster a more open and comfortable communicative environment?

Kat Vellos
Good question. You know, I noticed when I listened to the sample date, that Sasha seemed to be doing that a few times, you know, she's done a lot of impressive things, a lot of interesting things. And she shared about them in this like, very humble, very subtle way. And it's important that, you know, people create the stage for other people to open up, right. And you do that by showing a really warm curiosity about the other person. And one way that I think it makes that makes it more inviting and feel safer to open up is in how you frame the question. So, for example, there's a difference between saying, "so what's your job like?" which is, you know, pretty vague, pretty open ended, that's fine. But it's really different than saying, "I love learning about what lights people up in their career, like their proudest moments or the bright spots. So this next question, I invite you to brag a little bit, I would love to hear about what have been some of the high points for you in the work that you do." And then sit back and listen, don't interrupt, like let them really fill in that space. Tell, tell about the really cool things that they've done or the things they're proud of. Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to asking questions on a date, or an even, you know, like I talked about friendship all the time, is that this is been proven there was a 2017 Harvard study that found that people who ask more questions are perceived as more likeable. So don't be nervous asking questions, know that, you know, you're making it easy for the other person to open up. And afterwards, people tend to rate their conversation partner higher when they have shown that curiosity. And then if somebody offers you a really good, juicy question, open up, share, like give them something specific in detail to learn about you. And that will provide fodder for more like threaded follow up conversation questions.

Taly
So that actually feeds really well on to our next question. So you know, you you talk in your TED talk about the fear of rejection, and how people are hesitant to extend invitations. But I think that extends also to you know, they're hesitant to open up and be vulnerable. And I think that's something that we can all relate to, in some form. And we're curious if you have any advice for folks who want to build stronger connections with someone, but might still be harboring that fear of rejection? And if they are rejected, how do you shake it off?

Kat Vellos
Yeah, rejection is part of life. It's true. And it's one of the things you know, most people have a little bit of a fear of, they're concerned about it, you know, it hurts, it stings a little bit. But I really say like, try to see if you can lessen the fear of that, by getting used to it. Like there was a, gosh, this was probably over 10 years ago, I watched this really hilarious video, you can probably find it on YouTube, where this guy wanted to get over his fear of rejection, like he was going into business, and he knew he was going to hear the word "no" a lot. And so to lessen his fear of rejection, he didn't experiment where every day for a month, he tried to get someone to tell him "no." And he would do really outlandish things like, go to a burger restaurant, and after he had his burger asked if he could have a free refill on his burger. You know, like things that people were definitely gonna say no to. And the goal was to get it No. And sometimes he got a yes. And he was like, oh, gosh, I failed today. I gotta Yeah. But it's really funny. And it really helps you realize that the more you hear no, the the less scary it is. And another thing to keep in mind with getting a no is to, I find it something that I can be grateful for because it is clear, when someone says no, you know, where you stand, you know what reality is, they're not wasting your time. They're not stringing you along. It's not confusing. You don't have to wonder, you know, there's the saying that rejection is redirection. All it does is tell you, this is not where you should put your energy, turn to another direction. And I recommend just putting your attention on the spark that's going to sparkle back at you, and just focus on that.

Taly
I love that. Yeah,

Laura
I feel like that's a very quotable quote, focusing on spark that sparkles back at you. I love that. And so this next question is a little related to something we were talking about earlier, but framed a little bit differently. So in a number of our episodes, there's occasionally a brief, sometimes awkward pause, and the most common question that we've noticed, or theaters will jump in with tends to be "so what do you do?" And we did see that happen with last week's date between Mike and Sasha. So I'm curious, do you think a question like this is just a part of the normal process of getting to know someone? Or have you found that people benefit from little nudges like a prompt in order to take their conversational, or sorry, in order to take the conversational road less traveled?

Kat Vellos
So you mean a prompt like that? You might provide them with like, oh, when you don't know what to say, maybe pick one of these?

Laura
Yeah, yeah, or even just a list that they can reference. When we're starting with dates, we do ask them an initial prompt to get the conversation started, but we're curious about how do you continue a natural conversation? Is it unnatural to have a list of questions? Is it weird? Is it awkward? Is it beneficial? Is it helpful? Curious, to know your thoughts on that?

Kat Vellos
I think it's definitely beneficial and helpful. In fact, I just released a calendar that has alternatives to all these like typical small talk questions like "What do you do?" Because the thing is, we fall into these habits, right? There's certain scripts that are in our culture, like, "What do you do? Where are you from? Where do you go to school?" And it's so repetitive. And sure these things can tell you a little bit about somebody some context, but it may not be the most interesting or meaningful thing about them. And it might also be a question that they kind of like roll their eyes, they're like, "Oh, my gosh, here we go with that again." And so I definitely think it's helpful to have benefice like to have other prompts that someone can refer back to. I think that if you gave that to the daters, that would be super helpful. You're welcome to grab resources on my website. I highly 101% recommend this.

Taly
We are totally gonna link to this calendar. We're gonna have to get that from you. But I have a question for you about this, actually.

Kat Vellos
Yeah.

Taly
So Laura and I have actually talked about this separately and the thing that my response to kind of the do we you know, give folks more resources and questions to ask. My thought is, is it almost helpful to know, you know, where someone's mind goes in those moments of silence? Because to me, it's really telling when somebody takes that moment of silence and asks like a really interesting question, or refers back to something earlier in the date, as opposed to just kind of reverting to something like, "Oh, what do you do?" You know, something like that. And I find that to be really telling. And so I find it interesting to hear where that natural conversation goes, and and, you know, reticent to redirect it. And so I'm curious if you think that it is almost an informative piece of information during a conversation like in you know, you can then take it and process it as the receiver or the other person in the conversation of how you want to kind of continue your relationship with that person. If you think they're really interesting, because they ask great questions. Or if you think, you know, maybe we're not, you know, going to have the best conversations, because they're not terribly inspired.

Kat Vellos
I see. What I'm what I'm imagining right now, is there, two people in a conversation, somebody shared something interesting, I'm thinking back to this particular date that I listened to. And there's a pause. And then the other person can either change the topic like I saw Mike do a couple times, or instead say, "Are you open to sharing more about that?" Or do you want to maybe dive into one of these questions that jumped out to you you know, from this list or whatnot, you give them this list? And what I like about that, is it invites an opt in, right? So I'm thinking back, so one of the examples that she gave was about, she had done LSD in Joshua Tree, right? Like, that's a really juicy story that they want to drop, super vulnerable, super open right away. And maybe that's something that she's open to sharing more about. I mean, she brought it up, like, why change the subject, like that is really cool. Or, you know, maybe it's maybe she said everything she wants to say about it, she's ready to talk about being a comedian now, you know. And so I think asking someone like, Are you open to sharing more about that? Or do you want to dive into, you know, a different topic, like what's on your mind? I think giving that choice is really generous. And with that, I think then, by making it possible for the other person to say, you know, what would interest them to talk about whether it's a list you give them or maybe something that's just on their mind? Is it invites the opportunity to say like, what are you curious about? Which is really different than just what do you do? Yeah. Is this is this kind of like lining up with kind of your question? Because I think what's possible here is to say, Where would you like to go in this conversation? Like, what would make this really, really good for you? Rather than just we have to fill the time? Oh, my gosh, me like, filling in a question here.

Laura
Yes.

Taly
And then that actually feeds well into another question we have for you, in those moments of, you know, silence where you're trying to figure out where to take the conversation, especially on a first date, coming up with a great question can be really hard. And so I know you sort of answered this with two different directions. But I'm curious if you have any other advice in, you know, advice that you would give someone who wants to improve their ability to ask meaningful questions, you know, you can ask, do you want to talk more about that. But if they want to ask more meaningful questions, are there other ways that they can go about kind of improving that skill?

Kat Vellos
I would say improve your muscle for curiosity, and let yourself off the hook with feeling like you have to be the world's greatest, most meaningful question asker. Because that can sometimes make you feel a little bit nervous, or like, "Oh, am I good enough?" But instead just work on being really curious, like, see what is fascinating about this other person, you know, and then, you know, sometimes you can even like play a little game in your head where you try to see if you can ask like three follow up questions before you change the topic. I had a an anecdote in my book, we should get together about this where I had gone into work one morning, and I saw a coworker, and he says, how was your weekend? I said, "it was pretty good. I, you know, I worked on some projects at home," and he could have stopped there. But he asked another question. He said, "what kinds of projects were they work projects or personal projects?" And I said, Oh, well, it was a personal project. I was building some, you know, small little altars with sentimental objects on them, and couldn't stop there. But instead, he said, "Oh, are you into like, woowoo stuff? Or something like that? He said, Are you a spiritual person?" And I said, you know, I'm not religious, but I guess I'm like a tiny bit "woowoo." And he was like, "oh, have you heard about this store that just opened in Oakland, and they sell candles and affirmation cards, and they have a really beautiful Instagram," he pulls it out. And so like, by asking three follow up questions in five minutes, we were able to get so much closer and understand more about who each other were. And we found out that we both had this like slightly "woowoo" side, and we like affirmation cards and little things like that. And that would have never happened. If that conversation ended after the first question. "How was your weekend?" Right, which is pretty generic question. But by both people being willing to like, take the thread of that conversation, another loop and another loop and another loop. We got a lot closer and it didn't take long. And it wasn't that he was asking deep, meaningful questions. He was just curious. Do you see what I'm saying?

Laura
I think that's a really great tactic for, or, tactic sounds so formal. But that's the only word that's coming to mind. For me right now, it sounds like such a great way to really build a connection with someone, and I like the idea of framing it as a little bit of a game, because it can really, I think, help people feel less stressed out about, you know, do I need to come up with a new question? And I can't remember if I saw this in one of your emails, or if I saw this somewhere in the universe of communication, but one thing that I've been hearing a lot about lately is this idea of recalling. So when there's kind of a lull in the conversation, to bring it back to something that happened earlier and just ask to, essentially, it's kind of like merging these two ideas of asking three questions before you change the topic. Or reverting back to an original, you know, not original, but something that was talked about earlier.

Kat Vellos
Yeah. And that's, it's such a fantastic technique to use in a conversation. And it's also one of the tenants of really good storytelling and really good comedy is it loops back and it brings you back to something that you've heard before. That's often why punch lines are funny as they make a reference back to something that you already laughed at before.

Laura
Yeah, that's great. Also, I love that you said the word "technique," I'm going to use technique now instead of "tactic" because that sounds much nicer. Anyway, in a conversation you had with Hurry Slowly host Jocelyn Lee, you talk about people's tendency to throw away relationships, as soon as things seem less than perfect. And you express that because of this people wind up missing out on a chance to grow and to heal. What are some tactics people can use to avoid becoming discouraged when challenges arise?

Kat Vellos
Honestly, it's just remembering that there's no relationship in life, that's going to be 100%. conflict free, not, not anything, not friendships, not dating a family. Like, that's just not a realistic expectation is to think everything's always going to be positive and perfect 100% of the time, that's just not real. And so when we understand that, and we can take that in and say, this is a part of life, how can we hang with it? How can we heal from it? How can we get closer from it, you know, then we have richer relationships, we have robust, durable relationships that don't fall apart when they hit the first bump in the road. But they actually get stronger. And you learn more about each other by getting through a challenge together. And so think of it more as an opportunity to say, Whoa, how can we add another layer of depth to our relationship by seeing how we solve this problem together, rather than "Oh, my gosh, there's a problem, I should probably never talk to you again."

Laura
But I think is a really lovely technique for people to use to help deepen those relationships and see how well you can ride out that storm. And so yeah, transitioning a little bit to narrow in on Mike and Sasha's date in particular. So I'm curious, did you notice any areas in particular, where Mike and Sasha's questions could have been improved? And if so how?

Kat Vellos
Yeah, I saw several missed opportunities there for engagement. So an example is, you know, Sasha kept sharing really significant and specific details that were giving Mike opportunities to show his interest and curiosity and to learn more, right, like I said, she shared the fact that she had done LSD in Joshua Tree, very specific, extremely, you know, unusual. She also mentioned that she had performed comedy at some of the venues that he had been to and then use that he admired that was kind of like a very quiet mic drop. She's like, Yeah, I perform there. And then she like lists, like 10 musical artists that she likes about, they're talking about music festivals, and she's like, I like this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and I'm excited to go in March. And the next thing he says is, "so what do you do?" It's like, No, dude. She's given you so much here. He works in video. She said, she went to film school, it's like, oh, my gosh, that's a really cool lineup. So there were all of these opportunities to dive into something really, really specific, this great buffet. And unfortunately, what I observed is that he kept reverting to small talk, he kept reverting away from this really juicy, specific, interesting personal detail, and moving either to, you know, something kind of lighten and shallow, and also switching back to talking about himself, you know, in this kind of vague way. And so unfortunately, if I were to guess what happened here, I don't really feel like there was a lot of chemistry. There were so many missed opportunities. I don't know if I don't know what I would vote for this one, probably a no. If they were going to go on any more dates. I would be very curious to hear what Sasha's feedback and takeaways were from that conversation. I didn't it didn't sound like a lot of chemistry to me, even though there was a lot of potential there.

Taly
And I am curious if there are any moments that stood out to you as one of strong communication during the date?

Kat Vellos
Yeah. So I think that one thing that is really useful to keep in mind is by In a situation like this, is to take a risk, right? So Sasha was vulnerable a lot of times she she shared a lot of specific details. And that takes vulnerability. And it can be hard to open up like the question you asked earlier of like, you know, it can be uncomfortable to feel like you're bragging or to feel like you're talking about yourself. But you have to open up, you have to give somebody something to work with. And I saw her doing that quite a bit. And I think that's a really great example of how to take you know, even a basic question and fill it with something really specific, and, and vibrant, that can give more fodder for future questions feature curiosity connection, and it takes courage to do that. And so I would say that's something that I think was a plus. And I encourage everybody to practice doing that.

Laura
Yeah. So what do you think about the overall momentum of the conversation? You know, where it started versus where it wound up?

Kat Vellos
It started, I mean, just with that mic drop, the question you left him with at the beginning was, you know, what, what's something that you would like to re experience again? And she's like, boom, I did LSD and Joshua Tree. You know, and I think that that went to, the conversation kind of ebbed and flowed, there were these moments of like, real specificity, real detail, you know, interest. And then it was like, let's like, swim back to something safe. Oh, so what do you do, you know, and then like this happen, the other I, I, I created a startup or I do stand up comedy at night, like, public speaking is the number one fear of people. And this is someone who not only stands up publicly to do public speaking, but tries to make people laugh, like that is really, really interesting. And so it's like, there's that and it's getting interesting. And then, you know, and then it switches to something else. I just felt like, it kind of had the ebb and flow of like, we're getting into interesting territory, it's getting to us, and then it's like, a little let's paddle back to like, shore again. And there's this image I carry in my head of where a conversation goes. And there's like the shoreline, the shallow water, where, you know, maybe you're like, just doggy paddling around. And then there's like, snorkeling down and seeing like coral, and then they're scuba diving, we're getting into the deep water. And a lot of times, when people start to get into something more interesting, they get kind of scared, and then they like float back to servers or swim back to shore. And I'm just like, just take a breath, and stay there and see how that feels. And see what you can ask next, or share next, that can keep you where you're at, and maybe take you a little bit deeper.

Taly
Alright, so we have the million dollar question, Date and a Blink, what do you think? Did they match? I know you already kind of teased your your sense, Kat, but I'm going to make you answer it again. And I'm going to give my my guess and Laura will give hers and then she'll share what actually happened.

Kat Vellos
You know, there was a lot of potential here. Like I said they were they had similarities around the interest in film and video, the interest in going to music festivals, you know, he likes going to comedy shows, she's a comedian, like there was so much potential, I really, really wanted them to be a match. In that first conversation, it felt a little bit awkward. So I was like, I just don't know if this is gonna be a match, like despite these commonalities, so I'm going to have to vote it, I would guess, no, but I'm, I hope I'm wrong.

Taly
So I had the exact same feeling as you that they had a ton of overlapping interests and places where they like, seem to, you know, be parallel, but they never really they were like ships in the night, where they just were kind of talking past each other. So I was in this maybe camp, I know, I'm sort of cheating. I should be saying yes or no, but I was in this maybe camp of they might be willing to continue exploring the conversation because they had so much overlap. But I didn't get the sense that like the conversational vibe was you know, was jam and so to speak. So I was in a maybe-leaning-no.

Laura
So drumroll, please. They were not a match. So both of your guts were telling you correctly. So the though the connection wasn't strong enough for them to continue the conversation, it was really interesting, as we're talking about conversation and different setups, and really helping people, you know, skip the small talk, so to speak, and actually get to meet each other and to talk to, you know, a three dimensional person as opposed to a two dimensional profile at some of the feedback that they did gave about the format was that Sasha liked the setup, and Mike said that he thought it was cool, something different, and especially because it was so quick, it was easy to fit into his schedule. So I do think that though they were ships passing in the night, I think these ships might continue to sail the seas that are actually talking to people.

Kat Vellos
Yay. All right, then, you know, there's more fish in the sea, more ships out there.

Laura
There's more ships and more nets. All right, well, Kat, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing more about your expertise on the power of cultivating meaningful connections with our audience. And definitely thank you for indulging us to see how we can apply this to people going on their first dates. Before we let you go, we have two remaining questions. So one of them is what words of wisdom or advice do you have for the singles listening to our podcast? And lastly, how can our audience get connected with you?

Kat Vellos
Mm hmm. So words of wisdom. I would say have fun, be yourself and be curious. And if you want to connect with me, my website is we should get together.com That's also the name of my book. And I'm on Instagram at @katvellos_author.

Laura
Thank you so much for your time this morning through

Kat Vellos
Yeah, thank you. This was so much fun. Yes.